Do police test the guns that people turn in for $$$, "no questions asked"?

I just heard on the radio that Yonkers, NY is giving out $200 for any handgun that an individual turns over to the police. They will be accepted on a "no questions asked " basis. Ultimately, the report added, the turned-in firearms will be destroyed.

Okay, fair enough. It’s important to the police to get the guns off the street. But do they do any tests on the surrendered weapons to try to match them to prior crimes? It seems somehow irresponsible – perhaps even illegal – not to. If they don’t, aren’t they just serving as the ultimate foolproof disposers of crime evidence? If they do, however, how does that “no questions asked” business apply?

What’s the Straight Dope, people?

PS – For the record, I possess no firearms, I am not a criminal or law enforcement officer, and I don’t even live in Yonkers!

I doubt they do anything. I think to most people, $200 isn’t worth being connected to a crime. I’m blanking on the word, but I believe it truly is, no questions asked. Got a gun, here’s $200 goodbye. But come to think of it, couldn’t they just go out and buy another (clean) gun for $200. In Milwaukee, I think they give out a gift certificate for $50 or $75, but I don’t really know the details. Of course I guess you could just sell that for cash.

It seems prudent that a ballistics test be done on confiscated weapons, but as nobody who actually committed a crime with a particular weapon is likely to turn it in, the odds of the police actually finding a missing murder weapon are most likely very small. However, as unregistered guns probably change hands fairly frequently, it might not be unheard of for a gun used in a crime to turn up in the hands of an “innocent.” Regardless, the “no questions asked” policy would prevent the police from trying to find out where and how the last owner procured the gun, so knowing you have a gun used in a crime would only open the door to abuses of the policy. Easier to destroy the guns without a ballistics test. It keeps everyone honest.

A sheriffs deputy I knew here in KC told me that in the single gun buy back he was involved with, they did check serial numbers to see if they were reported lost/stolen or known to be connected to a crime, but they did not do any ballistics. He also told me that many of the “choice” guns went home with fellow cops, and he showed me with pride the Winchester .270 and NIB Taurus 9mm that he took home. :rolleyes:

Why the eye roll? They out of the hands of amateurs and into the hands of a trained professional. Maybe he should’ve reimbursed the city, though.

Yep.

From what I’ve heard from LEOs, the officers pick through all the guns and “take ownership” of the good ones. :mad:

It smacks at elitism. Why should public servants be able to get free guns? I would not have a problem if the guns were sold through an FFL and the proceeds went to the department. But for LEOs to keep them for themselves seems… wrong.

Bubba, cops hardly rank high up on the “trained professionals” WRT firearms, except maybe in some forms of tactical situational training. Some of the stuff I’ve seen cops do on shooting ranges would turn your hair white and your shorts brown. It’s like they feel that the safety rules on a range don’t apply to them, or something.

Individual exceptions abound, of course. But generally speaking, in my experience, cops with guns are only slightly better than chimps with nitro.

The idea is to get the guns off the street, not moved from one street to another.

If I take grandpa’s old Colt 45 out of the shoebox in my closet and turn it in to be destroyed, I’m preventing the crackhead who breaks into my house from finding it and using it. But when some cop takes it home and puts it in a shoebox in his closet, nothing has changed and the intent of the program gets subverted.

I’ll second this.

I have a firing range on our property, and I’ve had *many * people shooting on it over the years. As a general rule, the safest shooters tend to be non-LEOs with *lots * of shooting experience. The ones I have to keep a close eye on are current & ex LEOs and ex-military. The current/ex LEOs are the worst; I’m *constantly * telling them to keep their finger off the trigger. The ex-military are pretty good about keeping the finger off the trigger, but they also have a tendency to wave their muzzles in unsafe directions. But it’s the LEOs I watch the closest… many think firearms safety rules don’t apply to them.

If this is the goal, then the cops should not be allowed to take ownership of them.

Here is a link to a Canadian Amnesty that explictally says they check to see if the guns have been used in a crime…

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2006/07/06/bc-gun-amnesty.html

You’d think that it would make more sense do this if you are charging 200 bucks a gun, but that doesn’t nessicarily make it so…

But on the side point about officers taking them home, I totally agree its totally unacceptable. There just as likely to be stolen from a cops closet as anyone elses, and it our tax dollars that are paying to make sure these guns are destoryed.

It seems like this would be a good way to get rid of a weapon used in a murder- safer than trying to hide the weapon, or tossing it into a lake (where it could, theoretically, be found). And hey, an extra $200 to boot.

That only works if the crackhead can figure out which cop has the gun. Even though the crackhead was apparently smart enough to go from your granpappy’s house to your house, the trail goes cold at your house. The only way that crackhead is going to get the .45 now is if he had an informant at the police station keeping an eye out for the Colt. Then he can go and break into the cop’s house. That’s a lot of work for a crackhead, and besides crackheads don’t want guns, they want crack. But if he did want a gun he would want a 9mm instead of a Colt 45, and cops usually have a 9mm. So maybe he was planning on breaking into the cop’s house all along, and gramp’s Colt was better off at your house after all.

The crack-head is not on a single minded crusade to find that gun… He breaks into houses at pretty much at random and takes whatevers inside. A colt .45 in your house is no less safe than one in a cops house (vast majority of break-ins happen at unoccupied houses, so he has not way of knowing its a cops house). The point is that we (i.e the tax payer) paid $200 to make sure that gun was destroyed, and wasn’t sitting around in a closet where it could be stolen. By taking it home he had pretty much made sure that money is wasted.

Effectively, we (the taxpayers) bought the cop a gun for two hundred bucks.

Nope, it ain’t right.

First of all, the reason for gun buy-back programs isn’t “to get guns off the streets”–I doubt gangbangers and for-hire contract killers are raring to turn in their guns for a couple hundred bucks–but rather to give politicians the appearance of “doing something about crime” and the resultant media images of piles of guns, most of which are neglected, nonfunctional, or obsolete. I defy anyone to demonstrate the effectiveness of gun buy-backs in any kind of causal link to crime reduction.

Second, unless there is some reason to perform a ballistics test on a particular gun they won’t do so. Remembering from a few years ago when I was tangentially involved in forensic science (research for an abortive fiction story) I recall a standard ballistics test running about $400; for your four C’s you got a selection of bullets fired into a bullet trap, photographs and description–more on this in a minute–of the rifling marks, and a ~5 page report (most of which details the parameters under which the test rounds were fired and the condition of the gun). Costs may vary, but I doubt they’ve gotten cheaper.

Also, because there is no universally systemized way of describing rifling marks, there is no universal database to reference; you basically have to compare an evidence bullet to a test round. Cop shows, except for the rare exception like Law & Order, tend to offer the impression that rifling marks are an indelible characteristic of a gun and that bullets are always recovered intact. In fact, matching rifling marks, even with an intact round, is as much art as science, and bullets that strike a hard surface, soft lead bullets like wadcutters, or jacketed hollowpoint rounds (JHP) may often be too deformed or shed their jackets rendering them useless for detail comparison. Also, rifling characteristics will change with time, so a gun that is fired often will display different wear patterns over its lifespan. Also, barrels that are hammer forged with polygonal rifling, like the Glock or modern HK barrels, are so consistent that it may be impossible, especially with an out-of-box gun, to distinguish between like pistols.

Another thing to note, and perhaps one of our jurist members can speak in greater detail and with more authority on the matter[sup]*[/sup], but once the firearm has been accepted anonymously the chain of custody is broken. Because it (at least theoretically) can’t be traced back through its entire line of ownership back to the hypothetical crime, the issue of who possessed the weapon when is in question. For instance, the police find that a Beretta 92F, purchased by Alfred P. Bumblethumb in 1998, was used to hold up Last Chance Liquors in 2003, and turned in to the Bronx Photo-Op Gun Buyback Blowout in 2006. Now, Sammy “The Squeeze” Salviato was convicted for robbing Bumblethumb’s house in 2002, during which the pistol was stolen, and reports having sold it to inverterate liquor store robber Jimmy “Born To Lose” Bumpo just prior to the robbery, so the cops go and pick up Mr. Bumpo. Our Born Loser, an experienced veteran of the penal system, screams for his lawyer, and even the most dripping-wet-behind-the-ears Legal Aid counsellor from a third-tier law school knows that all he has to do is go before a judge and challenge the integrity of the evidence chain; lacking any way to establish ownership at the time of the crime, the evidence and all theories pertaining thereto will be inadmissable. Even if someone later steps forward and admits to having turned in the gun, the fact that it entered police receivership without a documented chain will likely result in it being found inadmissable, and our friend Jimmy released on the street to be shot by some more proactive liquor store holders. (Note to prospective liquor hold-up men: robbing a store called "Bill Hickock’s Wild West Wine and Spirits is ill-advised from both a career advancement and health & welfare standpoint.)

So, from a procedural point of view, it’s better to have a firearm that has been used in a crime “on the street”, i.e. in the hands of a criminal who can be persuaded to vouch for the trail of ownership of the gun rather than anonymously tossed in a bin. From a practical point of view, only a fraction of a percent of firearms in public ownership are ever used in a crime, and for those turned in there are plenty more to be had by theft, grift, the shady market, et cetera. Gun buy-backs look impressive but are scarcely more effective at reducing crime than is emptying a desert by shoveling sand with a pitchfork.

As far as police picking up the guns that are intended to be destroyed, well…I’m sure many are just looking for free swag and a fun plinker, but I’m guessing that this technically violates most state laws (even in states where registration of sales isn’t enforced, it is generally required that private handgun transfers be recorded by the parties) and would almost certainly violate law if the gun happens to have been transferred across state lines, interstate commerce of firearms being regulated by the Treasury Department. I would suspect that the less shiny of the law enforcement profession might use the opportunity to pick up a few “drop pieces” to be used as insurance in the case of an unjustified shooting. No doubt this occurs anyway–it’s not infrequently the case that “destroyed evidence” turns up later in the hands of a peace officer–but this seems like a wholesale encouragement of it. And again, the chain of ownership having been broken, it’s going to be difficult to tie the gun back to someone. A gun used in a questionable police shooting that could have been picked up by any of a dozen or more police officers is scarcely more evidence than a gun with no history at all.

So, in short, gun buy-back programs are at best a useless waste of taxpayers’ money, and at worst counterproductive in finding evidence and prosecuting standing crimes.

Stranger

[sup]*[/sup]I reserve the right to back-pedal and weasel to the best of my ability if and when one of our barred members comes up with an authoritative rebuttle of my claim.

The scariest experience I ever had on a range was with a bunch of local sheriff’s deputies who were (so they claimed) there to do their annual quals. Apparenently, those qualifications were satisfied by firing in the air, at the ground, in the sideways-above-the-head-Steven-Seagal-popularized “gangsta grip”, jumping through the air, firing double fisted a-la a John Woo movie, and otherwise doing things I’ve never seen, been taught, nor taught anyone else to do in an instructional or competative setting. Although I did not make a detail examiniation of their practical accuracy–my goal was to remain out of the line of fire, which eventually had me leaving the entire range complex–I find it hard to believe that they were in the black on any target as anything more than a wild hit.

I understand that Federal agents, or at least FBI and members of various Treasury bureaus, are held to a much higher standard of marksmanship proficiency and tactical handlling, and most state police organizations mandate ongoing training with duty arms, but the quality and stringency of training among local law enforcement organizations varies widely; if you’re LAPD Special Tactics then you’re probably on par with the FBI’s elite Hostage Rescue Team; if you’re Cleveland, OH Police Department, maybe you’re required to squeeze off a box of rounds once a year.

As for ex-mil; I’ve known some great shooters that were former military, but they were without exception enthusiasts aside from their professional experience. I’ve also seen a lot of blowhards who seem to think that what they learned in Basic qualifies them as a Master Sharpshooter despite the fact that they walk around with a cocked-n-locked pistol stuffed down the front of their pants pointed at their genitals and a complete inability to consistantly hit inside the 8-ring on a B29 target at 10 meters.

Stranger

They had a general firearm amnesty here a few years ago, with the same “No questions asked” policy- Unlicenced people could hand in their guns with no questions, and licenced firearm owners could register a gun to their licence, again with no questions asked. Most people thought “Yeah, right”, and figured bad things would happen if they registered the guns- the police would come around to see what else they hadn’t registered, or licenced people would get their licence renewals knocked back, but amazingly, the Police were true to their word- I know plenty of people who handed in or registered guns, and it truly was no questions asked, no repercussions, etc.

Most of the guns handed in were rusty, inoperable junk, or else single-shot .22 rifles that had been in people’s sheds since the Depression. Very, very little of collectible or historic value was handed in, and in some states (Victoria, for one) anything of collectible/historic value went to a Museum instead of the crusher.

The last round of hangun buybacks was known as “New guns for old”, since shooters could take in their crappy, useless guns, get market value for them as if they were functioning shooters, and head off down to the gunshop to buy a shiny new gun- all at the taxpayer’s expense. And the best part is, it was Constitutionally mandated- if they want to confiscate guns on a National level, they have you pay you lots of money for it…

I think several nice folks here have encompassed any answer I would give. But in short, the purpose of the program is to get guns off the streets and to subsequently destroy them. Not so people can (almost certainly illegally) acquire trophy pieces and personal collectables, which may very easily be re-sold, pawned, or gifted, and thus eventually end up back on the street. If a cop boasting about how he picked up a $400 rifle for free and how that’s a perk of the job isn’t at least unseemly to you, then I really don’t know what else to say, as we won’t have a meeting of the minds on this subject.

FTR, IMO gun buyback programs do have a useful purpose in at least one way. They allow people who have a gun they acquired through any means - whether bought, found, inherited, someone left and never reclaimed, etc. - to simply get rid of it without worrying about taking it down to the police station and ending up being questioned or under suspicion - or worse, being tasered or shot by a trigger-happy cop who mistakes what the person is there for (not likely in reality, but an irrational/disproportionate concern that I’ll hazard many people would have in the back of their minds). Sadly, there seems to be a gulf of mistrust between the People and law enforcement which grows each year.