I’m curious about the status of saints in protestant churches. The RC Church recognizes the special status of people who lived very holy lives, and canonizes these people, giving them the title of “saint”. What doe protestants say about saints? I get the feeling that saints make them uncomfortable-which is why you get “The 2nd Baptist Church-instead of St. Mary’s Church)”. Yet, most protestants acknowledge historical saints (St. John, St. Andrew, St. James, etc.)-what’s the issue?
Also, modern saints-are the protestants against recognizing sints in modern times?
For some protestant churches, they believe that all christians are saints. So there is no need for saints in the way that the Catholic church views them.
Hmmm.
In the southern baptist churches I’m accustomed to, recognizing saints is just viewed as yet another silly Roman Catholic tradition, much like Maryolatry.
We acknowledge that they existed, not that they possessed any saintliness in the way Roman Catholics understand the term. In Presbyterianism, as I’ve practiced it, “saint” refers to any believer. The apostle Paul is called “the apostle Paul” or simply “Paul.”
Aside from the triune godhead, nobody is elevated above anyone else. So we’re also not in the habit of creating new saints.
Anglicans (Episcopalians) recognize saints. Of course, my priest is hesitant to call Episcopalians “Protestants.”
At least in my previous congregation (United Methodist) we used “saint” to refer to anyone who exemplified Christ-like behavior. We’d use the term almost like “example”, as in “Jennifer is a saint to me when she …”. This might have been a local usage, though.
On preview, it looks like others use the term similarly.
Would you consider the Church of England to be a “protestant” church? (In other words, you need to define “protestant”.) They recognize the existence of saints even though, in practice, they no longer canonize people as far as I know.
ETA:
And… Renob beat me to it! I am feeling less than saintlike now. :mad:
Certain denominations, notably Episcopalians and Lutherans, take tradition of apostolic succession (that the original 12 Apostles ordained their successors, who then ordained their successors, etc.) more seriously than other denominations.
Because of apostolic succession, they consider their denomination’s split from the original Roman church as an evolution, rather than starting a “different” religion. They accept the actions and rulings of the Roman church - up to the time they branched off - as part of their own tradition. As part of their tradition, they recognize the title of “saint” for those people who were called saints in the old Roman church even though the newer church may not have canonized anyone as a saint in 500 years.
I took a quick look at the Evangelical Lutheran Church’s liturgical calendar for next week. They commemorate Elizabeth of Hungary and Clement, a bishop of Rome. Both of those persons are called saints by the Roman Catholic Church. However, the Lutherans also commemorate William Passavant, a Lutheran pastor who died in 1894.
I am just going on my Lutheran upbringing here but…
I seem to recall that while we Lutherans might “recognize” or “respect” the Saints, we never pray to them. Sort of like “Let’s all remember the great work of St. John today…but please don’t ask him to do anything for you, that’d be silly.” Or “That Saint Francis was a swell guy to animals, we should be like him. But don’t think that he’s actually protecting your kitty.”
From what I’ve seen of Roman Catholic churches, there’s some praying to Saints. Like the Saint medaillions and the lighting of candles and asking Saints for stuff. That just doesn’t happen in Lutheranism.
Didn’t the (US) Episcopal Church canonize Martin Luther King Jr. ?
I am Episcopalian and I have never heard of that. That isn’t to say you aren’t right but I couldn’t see it fitting in very well. Episcopalians aren’t truly protestants nor are the Southern Baptists for that matter but that go over in the U.S. where we tend to think of Christians as a binary Catholic or Protestant determination.
How are the Southern Baptists not Protestant? What would be a better first-cut division in Christianity than Catholic-Protestant?
Your comments follow the notion that a Christian that isn’t Catholic is Protestant. I don’t have much problem with that in everyday American usage but some people take theological matters especially with genealogy of faith more seriously. However, the situation gets much more complex when you look worldwide and you see the different Orthodox churches butting up against one another. There is the ancient Coptic church as well and some really obscure Christian sects that don’t fit within the Catholic vs Protestant sorting either. There are some of people in the U.S. that follow some of these rare Christian faiths so a “Are you Catholic or Protestant?” line of questioning won’t get very far. The Amish and Mennonites aren’t protestants either BTW.
WHY BAPTISTS ARE NOT PROTESTANTS
In one strict sense, Episcopalians like me declare ourselves Catholic every service. It just isn’t Roman Catholic.
What would a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox say to that?
You just flipped the question on its ass end. I am not especially theological but that is not the right way to phrase such a thing just from a logical standpoint. The term catholic isn’t trademarked and the Episcopal church uses it according to its own theology.
The confusion is understandable…but no, we don’t pray to saints. We ask saints to pray for us, to intercede with God on our behalf… in much the same way that a Lutheran might say to a fellow Lutheran, “I don’t know if you heard, but my wife is going in for surgery tomorrow. We could sure use your prayers.”
I’m not going into the “Words have meanings” spiel but there is a very strong potential for confusion there.
I think the confusion we had to begin this discussion stems from your use of ‘Protestant’ to only mean followers of one specific reform movement. The common meaning is much, much broader.
Actually, as I understand it, in Catholic doctrine every soul in Heaven is a “saint.” The canonical saints, the ones with feast days and spheres of patronage and churches and cities named after them, are those the Church has officially decided must be in Heaven, could not possibly be in Hell or Purgatory.
Here is an alphabetical, ecumenical list of saints indicating by which church or churches each is recognized.
Precisely correct.