Do roof-top solar panels make environmental sense?

My sister is considering installing solar panels on her roof; with all the current tax incentives (one of which expires next month) she can supposedly pay off the expense in 5 years. She’s mostly doing it, however, for the environment and she asked me for advice. I am very pro environment but I am a bit dubious of the present state of solar panels. When considering mine-to-landfill do solar panels make much sense? Certainly some groups think so but then some people think planting trees can offset their carbon usage. It was recently reported that green tech companies are one of the biggest lobbying groups in my state (Mass). What do you think?

Is there any indication that the efficiency of solar panels will increase substantially over, say, the next five years? Her roof is within sight of it’s needing replacing so another options is waiting until she replaces it and does all the work at once.

If it matters, she lives in a suburb of Boston.

Well, it’s exploiting free energy that’s otherwise just hitting a roof. That’s worth something.

But they don’t magically appear on the roof nor magically disappear at the end of their lifecycle. So is the “something” a useful net benefit.

According to a quick Google, Massachusetts generates 9% of its electricity through renewables already. Not too high but worth remembering if you’re doing a calculation. In a place like Quebec where the electricity is almost entirely hydroelectric, I can’t see them being useful from an environmental viewpoint.

Considering only lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions (including everything from mining the resources to disposal), solar panels emit one or two orders of magnitude less greenhouse gases than fossil fuels, for a given amount of energy production.

That doesn’t include other environmental costs, such as local pollution, but it’s harder to directly compare wastewater release from a solar panel manufacturing to mountain top removal to mine coal.

(Disclaimer: I work for a solar company, but the following is my personal opinion.)

The simple, straightforward is yes – by far. No mass-produced anything is pollution free, but solar emits much, much less lifetime pollution than fossil fuels no matter how you look at it. Solar emits less pollution, isn’t enough by itself, but is a so-far essential part of a cleaner energy grid. Some regions are lucky enough to have geothermal or wind resources, both of which can produce more and cleaner energy than solar, but the rest of us aren’t so lucky and for us solar remains one of the cleanest energy sources. Note that “cleanest” does not mean “pollution-free”, it means “much less evil than fossil fuels, less habitat-raping than large-scale hydropower, less geography-dependent than wind or microhydro, and much less controversial/less long-term waste than nuclear”.

lazybratsche’s linked lifecycle meta-analysis covers a lot of studies, aggregated and summarized by NREL (a renewables research lab owned by the US Department of Energy). These sort of studies, also known as “cradle to grave analyses”, attempt to quantify accumulated pollution over a product’s entire lifecycle by normalizing different pollutants into carbon dioxide-equivalent units (in terms of its potential impact on climate).

That normalization is done because there isn’t one magic number that can encompass all of a product’s potential impacts on the environment and human safety: something can have minimal impact on the climate but be incredibly toxic (yet only produces minute quantities of the toxic waste), or kills a lot of frogs and nothing else, or completely decimates a local waterway but then operates cleanly for the remaining 25 years where the final product is installed, etc. For that kind of data, you need to look at the individual studies and sometimes they will also cover toxicology from pollutants that don’t have direct impacts on climate.

That NeoGeo article CarnalK linked to is a great start, and the Solar Scorecard mentioned in the article is also a good read. Sadly, as a still-young industry with many players outside of the reach of Western environmental legislation and watchdogs, “self-policing” and self-reporting is pretty much the norm… and the history of industry has taught us that rarely works. But as far as anyone can tell so far, even panels produced by the dirtiest factories in China are still much cleaner, in terms of pollution per kWh of energy generated over its lifetime, than fossil fuels.

In terms of energy return on energy invested (EROEI), over its lifetime, a solar panel will generate about 7x the amount of energy it took to be produced. This is already higher than, say, corn ethanol. Panel efficiency (measured as % of incoming solar energy converted into usable electricity) is always increasing, and in the lab the efficiencies are already more than 2x what they are in the consumer sphere, but we are already at less than $1/kW for the panels themselves. This means that the price of the panels themselves are already low, and only one portion of the overall cost of an installation – the rest is due to inverters, racking/mounting, (optional) batteries, and (optional) professional installation. So further improving panel efficiency will only have limited impacts on the end price of a complete system; for that to go down much more, economies of scale in inverter production, installation methodology, etc. will have to be improved.

(Not a sales pitch, but sales-related) The 30% federal tax break, coupled with any potential local incentives, is the only thing on the immediate horizon that could alter prices that drastically for most people. For the portion of solar users who need or want batteries, Tesla’s mass-production of their Powerwall units could have big impacts on the market – but most people don’t really need batteries with their solar. So if she wants to wait for the roof to be redone, just do it before the tax credit expires at the end of 2016 (unless it gets extended).

I have been following the conversion efficiency question for a while. The best current panels convert about 25% of the sunlight into power. But I don’t know if these are actually available. But that is getting fairly close to the theoretical max of 32% for silicon. There are more exotic materials out there that promise higher efficiency and one that uses a hybrid system with silicon utilizing the redder light and this one using the blue. These are in development and I would not wait for them.

Lots of luck getting those subsidies extended. The Republicans would probably advocate making solar power illegal (the way Reagan had solar panels removed from the White House).

I don’t know the statistics, but if you think coal and natural gas don’t have additional environmental costs beyond burning the hydrocarbons themselves, you’re mistaken. And those costs continue to be borne as you keep trying to find more of a diminishing resource.

I think I would go ahead and install it if I could afford it. The gripping difference is that you’re exploiting otherwise effectively wasted energy (I mean, unless you live under greenspace of some kind); instead of relying on a finite and shrinking supply of hydrocarbons. That is a paradigm-shifting efficiency gain on its face.

We can compare how much fossil fuel a solar panel will displace over time.

These are back-of-the-envelope style calculations. Assume we have a 20% efficient panel and we get 5 hours of sunlight 300 days a year. The panel produces about 1 kwh per day, 300 per year, or, over the 30-life of the panel (and discounting degredation, I know), 9000 kwh.

How much fossil fuel is that? From here

If the solar panel is displacing coal, over its life it displaces about 4.7 tons of coal. One single solar panel! Sure, you have to dispose of the solar panel when it gets old, but that 4.7 tons of coal doesn’t get disposed of into the atmosphere. Which would you prefer?

Every time I get to considering solar my research leads me back to maps like these which persuades me that it’s not efficient enough for where I’m located (Arkansas)

Sure, you can claim that one solar panel displaced 4.7 tons of coal, but where is that one solar panel located? Details are important.

There are other things you can do to further green up your residence.

For example, replacing incandescent bulbs with LEDs. Utilizing the most efficient appliances. And so forth.

I agree. I don’t think my example is a fantasy, but some places just aren’t very sunny.

And coal isn’t used as an electricity generation fuel that much. Massachusetts, for example, produces less than 10% of it’s electricity from coal. So why use that as your measure?

Somewhere the sun shines an average of only five hours a day, apparently.

I know, I know, the angle of radiation matters to the amount of radiation absorbed. But those numbers don’t sound unreasonably high for a south-facing roof slope.

Because coal is the worst and so comparing solar panels to it makes the best case, of course. :wink: Call it 662 gallons of gasoline then. Still sounds like a good trade.

Coal is used quite a bit in this country. I think it is a dying industry, but even with renewables and natural gas nudging it toward the exit, it will take decades to go away. I don’t think it is unreasonable to compare solar to coal. If you go into the details of the variables involved with solar, you end up with weather-map looking charts like what projammer linked to. I don’t dispute the more precise data, I simply came up with something typical of the Southwest/California/Colorado/Texas, where most US solar is now. Boston? Well, New Jersey actually has a high solar adoption rate, isn’t it pretty similar to Boston?

It is hard to estimate just how much power a solar panel generates over its lifetime. I have seen 5 hours a day of solid power production used in some models.

Thanks for all the input. It’s nice to get info from all angles.

Well, you’re gonna usually put something up there anyway to make the roof, be it tiles, planks, corrugated tin or palm fronds. May as well put up something useful.

Actually…
I was looking through youtubes of America The Beautiful, it being awesome, an’ all, wanting a non-vocal version — rather a number of surprising artistes seem to perform it to demonstrate virtue — and I came across a protest version by Willie Nelson; so I looked up Mountaintop Removal Mining, Big Banks Finance Mountaintop Removal, which I had never heard of but seems to be an Appalachian specialty, and looks to be generally unwise and not particularly environmentally friendly, and that led to Wiki, Mountaintop removal mining, which says:
*
Almost half of the electricity generated in the United States is produced by coal-fired power plants.*

MRM seems rather like fishing with dynamite, but with bigger bangs.

I thought that post by CarnalK was a surprising statement.

According to the US Energy Information Administration: