Sure, but if the former category has that attraction/lack of attraction due to the subtle signals society and culture put out about who is sexually/romantically desirable, then their preference has been influenced by bigotry. It’s almost impossible to know this for certainty, of course, but this seems a more likely explanation to me for most cases than that some people just don’t find certain races attractive due to innate whatever.
It’s likely that mere familiarity, both IRL and in the media, plays an important part.
There’s also the aspect that learned or innate attractiveness standards can end up favouring one race over another, sort of incidentally. Like most women prefer taller men, and some races are taller on average than others.
I don’t think having a sexual attractiveness “type” is bigotry, but I do think saying “I only date White women (or Asian/Black/etc)” is.
Because “White” is not a “type”, when it can encompass anyone from Rebel Wilson to Karen Gillan to Monica Bellucci to Björk to Taylor Swift. It’s not the same as “I have a thing for redheads” or “I like them blonde and busty” or other actual “types”.
It’s undeniable that ‘classical’ bigotry can influence sexual preferences, but that doesn’t make sexual preference ‘bigotry’.
Bigotry can influence many things. My grandfather chose a sports team he rooted for based on that team having fewer black players, but that certainly doesn’t make sports fandom ‘bigotry’.
Right, but your grandfather’s choice of teams was based on bigotry.
Y’know, I very much like this way of putting it.
You’re doing the equivalent of assuming all sports team preferences are based on bigotry, though, because you can’t imagine any other reason for them. I don’t really understand it, but I certainly wouldn’t assume that’s always the explanation.
What are you taking about? Did you read the post I was responding to? He said his grandfather picked his team based on the relative lack of Black players.
Sure, but you were saying you couldn’t think of any other reason for not finding certain races attractive.
Absolutely, but if we were to ask “Do sports team preferences make one a bigot?” the answer to that would be “no”, despite what my grandfather did. Bigotry can influence our preferences, but preferences themselves are not inherently a form of bigotry.
My wife and I have come to the realization that no matter how liberal we may be, by the time we have grandchildren, some of our beliefs that we are confident are progressive today beliefs will be viewed as racist, sexist or otherwise detrimental.
Presentism will bite us in the ass.
I think the answer would be “usually no” or “not necessarily”, but I think we agree on the substance.
That’s not really what I said.
Yes, and also waist to hip ratio. Preference for a smaller waist circumference than hip circumference is also universal across all cultures.
Cheesesteak thought the same as me.
We do agree on the substance, it’s the nit picking part we disagree about. I think WRT the OP’s question, it’s specific, does the act of having a preference mean one is a bigot?
If you need more information to determine if a person is a bigot, then the answer is ‘no’ because it isn’t the existence of a preference that makes one a bigot, it’s the motivation behind the preference that makes one a bigot.
Okay, fair enough.
Yes, there is a world of difference between saying “I have a preference for X” and purposefully deciding that you won’t allow yourself to consider dating anyone “not X”
Late to the thread, nothing very significant to say. Preferences are about what we like, not what we hate.
I assume you mean gender presentation, then? Or are you attracted to people who identify as female but outwardly present as male? I expect most people are attracted to a specific combination of gender presentation + genitals, with some people having wide tastes and others narrow tastes.
On an individual level, it doesn’t seem like there’s much harm, but on the aggregate it’s pretty clear that there are disparate outcomes by group, which I would say is harmful for the outgroup. If the dating pool for gay men is 10x smaller than the dating pool for straight men, then gay men could be worse off because they have a lower probability of meeting a good match than a straight men (though, that might depend on whether gay men and straight women are equally probable to be good partners - that may not be true). In some societies, it might be the case that both of these pools are sufficiently large that the harm is fairly negligible, but if, for example, you are gay or bisexual but choose to suppress that, you are (very minorly) harming others who might be attracted to you (and also harming yourself). Likewise, if a lot of people are not attracted to transgendered people due to bigotry, then the transgendered community is harmed from having a smaller pool of people to date. It may also be possible that most people are not attracted to transgendered people for non-bigoted reasons, but having a small dating pool does make the transgendered community worse off than other communities (likewise true for disabled communities, etc.).
If you think reducing the pool of dateable people doesn’t result in harm to a particular group - do you also feel that one baker choosing not to bake a cake for a gay couple also doesn’t result in any harm, since there are hundreds of other bakers that will cater to them? To me, the harm is pretty clear. That doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily anyone’s fault - but it’s an unfair outcome nonetheless.
I think it will be interesting to see how things look 100 years from now as gender definitions continue to evolve and societies become more racially integrated. People from the future might look back at our societies as being chock full of bigotry.
Yes, the fact that there are pretty strong correlations between race and positive responses on dating sites, that vary depending on the race of the respondent, really make me question whether such preferences can really be considered “innate” (that is, due to genetics or other factors that you are born with, as opposed to acquired through environmental influences) - unless you think that innate preferences should vary by race.
I don’t think that having race-based romantic preferences makes you a bigot, wholly in itself - but I think a lot of race-based bigotry DOES exist in the dating world, and it DOES result in disparate outcomes for groups. I feel like people should be recognizing this, and being willing to examine ways to reduce the disparity, rather than everyone just shrugging their shoulders and accepting that this systemic discrimination is perfectly fine. It’s likely the case that there is little that can be done on the individual level (other than being open to dating people of all races) - it would require a big societal shift (which I think is already happening - I see a lot more people talking about asian male and black female actors being objects of desire compared to 20 years ago).