Do species have a "right" to exist?

This following quote comes from a post in the Guinea worm GQ thread. FYI, the guinea worm is a parasitic worm that causes a painful and grotesque disease known as dracunculiasis.

Anyhoo, foolsguinea stated:

Although I doubt that this particular worm can be eliminated, we have a few questions that I can see:

  1. Does every species have a “right” to exist?
  2. Would viruses, being “less alive” than worms and bacteria, also have this right?
  3. Is it wrong to eliminate a species merely because it causes a human disease?

Whaddya think?


Gypsy: Tom, I don’t get you.
Tom Servo: Nobody does. I’m the wind, baby.

Right-wingers went ballistic when the endangered snail darter fish blocked a dam project back in the 70’s and many still haven’t forgotten. While I’m sympathetic to the probelms of a major human endeavor being blocked by the threat to a minor species, that would set a very bad precendent. Protecting species from extinction is a major moral issue. Having said that, I think I would draw the line at disease causing bacteria, let alone viruses. I’m willing to take the chance that the ecosystem might be losing some beneficial organisms.

I don’t see anyone, left or right, crying over the extinction of smallpox.

I don’t think all species have an absolute moral right to exist. However we have to keep in mind that the ecological consequences of species extincition are not always immediately obvious. We should exercise great care and thought before extinguishing a species, if only for our own protection.


If Cecil Adams did not exist, we would be obliged to create Him.

IIRC, there are samples of smallpox at the CDC in Atlanta and at its Russian equivalent. That’s good enough for me. The line should absolutely be drawn at the animal kingdom. However, that’s really the only line we can make. Snails, mosquitos, whatever, definitely have a right to exist. Although, it would be very difficult to stop a dam project because it was the last refuge of a very rare mosquito. In that case, I’d be perfectly content to look the other way.


A hush fell over the courtroom, killing six.

I’d say everything has the right to live until something else comes along to kill it.

Since I believe “morals” are just what some people make up to tell other people what they (those other people) are doing wrong, I don’t believe in the “moral right” of anything.

That said, I also don’t believe wanton destruction is such a hot idea - especially if one is uncertain of the consequences of such destruction. And before making a determination if something should live or die, I’d first like to know a little bit more about it. Just how big a threat is the worm, bacteria, virus? If it comes down to a choice between me and the Guinea worm, I’m pretty likely to choose me - unless the worm can come up with a really convincing argument.

Is this the correct question:
If a species is alive do we have the right to exterminate it?

or is it:

If an intelligent species is alive do we have a right to exterminate it?

Either way, the “major” moral delema is that of murder. The first is excusable because there is no loss of possible “humanity”. I am using humanity as a means of a soul or higher conciousness. In the second case…

Of course, then the issue of “what is intelligence?” arises.

And then the possibility of communication to express desires or needs for the survival of a species.

For reading I suggest Enders Game. Deals with this stuff in an interesting view point.

1.) No species has a “right” to exist. Look at all the extinctions in Earth’s history. The notion of rights is a human construct. As Robert A. Heinlein once pointed out, a man drowning in the Pacific Ocean does not have a right to life regardless of what the Declaration of Independence says.

2.) See above.

3.) This is an extremely difficult question to answer. Some species beneficial to humans carry diseases that can affect us. I think cows can pass pinkeye disease to humans, and yet many of us, myself included, like to nosh on a steak. An employee of my father once got blood poisoning from being scratched by his cat and yet millions of humans keep the contrary lil beasts as pets.

I think the Guinea worm should be eradicated as much as possible for the greater good of Third World humans. I doubt the environment will greatly suffer from its departure. Let Greenpeace and other groups bitch all they want to.

if a animal cant survive and adapt to humans then it does not have a right to exist

Do certain species have a right to exist? No more than the human species does…

Still later, Gerald did a terrible thing to Elsie with a saucepan.

The Holocaust did not completely wipe out the human species. The passenger pigeon was completely wiped out. Which was the greater crime?

I, for one, hope we do get to the point where the mosquito or the cockroach are endangered species.

It’s not that speciies have a moral right to exist, it’s the fact that it is nescessary for the species to exist. Does it cause a substantial gap in the food chain? Each organism is food for another, and maybe that insect doesn’t seem important to us, but may be a vital source of food for fish and birds (who are also important prey.) It just keeps going up.

Every species that exists on the earth has a reason to be there. Not a reason as in “because God wanted it that way”, but a reason as in they are fulfilling an evolutionary niche. Any new species that appears in an ecosystem contributes something in some way to that ecosystem. If they don’t, the ecosystem becomes impoverished and unable to support them, and they begin dying off until equilibrium is restored. If a species is removed from the ecosystem, then everything goes out of whack, and starts to affect neighboring ecosystems.

Right now in New Mexico, a major environmental concern is the Rio Grande Silvery Minnow. A small, unassuming fish, the minnow used to range pretty much all the way up and down the Rio Grande’s length. Now it is confined to a small section of the river that has the nasty tendency to dry up in the summer. They can’t go upstream to spawn because of flood control dams, and attempts to reintroduce them to other parts of the river have failed- they always end up in that same stretch. Now, in many spots on the river, there are no fish at all. The silvery minnow is pretty much the mid-Rio Grande’s last gasp as a balanced ecosystem. If it disappeared, who knows what would happen? Perhaps the river would become choked with algae, and become useless as a supply of drinking water. Perhaps the birds that feed on the minnow would also vanish from the region.

To answer the OP, clearly, all species are not quite as harmless to us as your average minnow. The guinea worm, which someone on the other thread says only inhabits humans, is a good example of this. Since the ecosystem we’re talking about is the interior of the human body, well, not having any more guinea worms about would obviously be beneficial. As was stated, they’re parasites. They take from the ecosystem, and give nothing back. However, the argument could be made that the guinea worm plays a vital role in keeping the human population down. I believe I’ll leave this to a debate on overpopulation.

I was going to close by stating that while no species, including our own, has the right to exist, it would be in everyone’s interest to see to it that none is eliminated without some very serious thought as to the consequences. But then I thought, what are rights, anyway? We here in America have the right to speak freely, choose our own religions, keep and bear arms, petition our government for redress of grievances, etc. Why do we have these rights? Because, in the long run, it is best for everyone that we do. Perhaps the question of species rights could be visualized in similar terms. If we don’t eliminate them, their absence doesn’t cause us to choke on our own excrement, or something to that effect.

As a postscript, I would like to add that viruses mutate so quickly that none would be missed for long if they were eradicated.


Heck is where you go when you don’t believe in Gosh.

“Rights” are a human construct, pure and simple. Rights only exist when they are created and enforced by humans. Today, non-human species don’t have a right to existance.

My personal opinion is that this is morally correct.

A question for opposers: If you think a particular non-human life form has a right to existance, do you feel that we should take steps to protect it from existance by non-human predators? Do you feel we should take steps to detect possible endangerment by non-humans?

Why does any species have a “right” to exist? Extinction is a natural consequence of existence. Maybe we should go to court and get an order granting the Dinosaurs’ right to exist. Everybody gets all up in arms and spouts “natural selection” when battling the evil creationists, but when it comes to a question of eliminating a species that is a threat to our own species. Then everybody becomes all soft-hearted and teary-eyed, declaring the rights of all species.

Seems to me that this is a case of selectively applied logic.

I say exterminate 'em. If they’re the fittest, then we won’t be able to do it and they’ll survive and take over the world.


If you say it, mean it. If you mean it, do it.
If you do it, live it. If you live it, say it.

Joe Cool

This might be considered petty, but as I recall from my 28 years of living there, the Rio Grande is not much of a source of drinking water. Doesn’t nearly 100% of Albuquerque’s drinking water come from the aquifer? and the rest from rainwater? I imagine most other towns in NM are the same. Not to mention that the Rio Grande isn’t exactly a clean, healthy river. Especially after Intel’s plant gets done with it, just a little bit upstream from you. :wink:

OTOH, It’s been over a year since I’ve been gone, so I may be remembering wrong.


If you say it, mean it. If you mean it, do it.
If you do it, live it. If you live it, say it.

Joe Cool

I swear, there’s website for everything. Save The Guinea Worm Foundation
Try not to take it too seriously. :smiley:


Gypsy: Tom, I don’t get you.
Tom Servo: Nobody does. I’m the wind, baby.

To respond to a couple of earlier posts:

There is growing anecdotal evidence that smallpox stores now exist in other parts of the world besides Russia and CDC in Atlanta, GA. When the USSR broke up, some say that scientists working in the bioterrorism field took samples with them to other countries (possibly Iraq, for example) as job collatoral. It has been eradicated in the wild, but I’m still banking on my immunization not having completely waned just in case somebody decides to release some. You younger folks are completely shit out of luck on this, though.

Re. mosquitos being eradicated… I would certainly applaud the extinction of the anopheline species that carries malaria.

Before you mourn the possible loss of Mother Nature’s child the guinea worm, fancy this. There is no cure once a person contracts these worms. The female grows to about three feet long before it emerges from the skin. You know you get rid of them? First a painful pustule forms (and you’re pretty sick by this time) - usually on the lower part of the body; often the foot, but it can be your butt, too - and the worm starts to emerge, you begin to wrap it around a stick. You want to be careful the worm doesn’t break, because it can make you even sicker. It takes a few weeks to a month to get the whole worm out, and the whole time you’re wrapping this thing around a stick, tied to your body.

Jill

To continue along this thread (but w/ a small change), instead of thinking about us making a species extinct, how about where we are saving a species whose time has come?

I am refering to (eg) the California Condor. This huge bird is the last remnant of the Pleistocene fauna ( ie La brea Tar pits). Now that the Mammoth & Mastadon corpses it was specialized to feed on are gone, it is becoming extinct. Smaller scavengers, like the buzzard, raven, etc. can fit the niche of scavenger on deer & roadkill better than the Condor. No niche, no Condor. We are making herculean efforts to save it, should we?

what we could say is…
“hey Guinea Worm, do you mind if we kill you all off?”
and if it shakes its head then we leave it alone. else nuke the b*****.


Nessie Lives!
(and “incognuity” should be a word!)