Do the laws of the United States apply to me if I go overseas?

[kimera]

I noticed that the age of consent in England is 16. If I went over to England and had sex with a 16 year old, would the US government be able to prosecute me for it? What if I smoked a joint in Netherlands? What if there was a country that allowed murder?

Thanks for your help.

[kimera]

I just remembered that some states also have the age of consent at 16, so a better question would be: If I went to Chile and had sex with a 12 year old, would I be arrested when I returned to the US?

I know it is illegal to go to the other countries just to engage in such activities, but if I was just sightseeing or visiting friends and happened to engage in such activities on the side, would I get in trouble.

[Chairman_Pow]

@kimera

I just remembered that some states also have the age of consent at 16, so a better question would be: If I went to Chile and had sex with a 12 year old, would I be arrested when I returned to the US?

I know it is illegal to go to the other countries just to engage in such activities, but if I was just sightseeing or visiting friends and happened to engage in such activities on the side, would I get in trouble.

I believe someone with an actual cite will come forward shortly, but if I can add something I saw on the TV not too long ago (six months?) - there was a law enacted that was in part to destroy the “sex tourism” trade whereby an American could be prosecuted for having sex in a foreign country with anyone under 18.

I don’t know if this passed or not and my search didn’t turn up anything.

[Blueapple]

@kimera

I noticed that the age of consent in England is 16. If I went over to England and had sex with a 16 year old, would the US government be able to prosecute me for it? What if I smoked a joint in Netherlands? What if there was a country that allowed murder?

Thanks for your help.

IANAL, but in the situations you described, you couldn’t be prosecuted by the United States, as they don’t have juristiction.

This brings the questions up on how does it inforce a law they have with Cuba, where its illegal to spend money there.

It’s not illegal to travel to Cuba, but it is illegal to spend money there. Sound confusing? It is a little. In a nutshell, due to the 40-year-old embargo imposed on the government of Cuba after the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Bay of Pigs Invasion, Americans must adhere to the Trading with the Enemy Act which is overseen by the Treasury Department and the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC). It disallows the spending of money there so as not to support the Cuban government.

• here

[Shalmanese]

So if I were a US citizen living in a state where the AoC was 16 and went overseas with another 17 year old and had intercourse, could I be prosecuted when I get back?

[Chimpy]

So, kimera; how you doin’?

[kimera]

@Chairman Pow

I believe someone with an actual cite will come forward shortly, but if I can add something I saw on the TV not too long ago (six months?) - there was a law enacted that was in part to destroy the “sex tourism” trade whereby an American could be prosecuted for having sex in a foreign country with anyone under 18.

Yeah, I know they go after American Businessmen who travel overseas to have sex with underaged people in Thailand. But, iirc, how they go after them is because the businessmen go over seas for that expressed purpose. I also know that the legal age in Thailand is 15, so if they do it with anyone under that they can get arrested and charged by both the Thailand and American government.

[busterpickle]

If you look at your passport it says that you have to adhere to federal laws. So, if you do something that violates federal law, as with Cuba, yes, you can be prosecuted.

However, I find hard to believe that any state has any jurisdiction outside of itself. Even with the U.S. except for certain crimes. AFAIK

eb

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

IANALE, but there are a number of different methods under which a state may claim jurisdiction.

Where the crime is committed is the most basic, but not the only one. Citizenship and/or residency of the victim, citizenship and/or residency of the perpetrator, where the effect may be- a conspiracy devised during an international phone call, for example, and a couple of other things I’ve forgotten since International Law can all be tests for jurisdiction.

It also depends on whether you return voluntarily. The Netherlands will not extradite you for an act which is not a crime in that country- just about every extradition treaty specifies that the act must be a crime in both states for extradition proceedings to take place.

In the most general terms, if the law the other state doesn’t have is an international norm- ie. near-universal, such as the prohibition against child prostitution- you can be prosecuted. If not, prosecution would be something of an insult to the sovereignty of the state you committed the act in.

In any case, determining the age of consent is up to the states (as in United States, not as in nation-state), not the federal government, so unless you have specifically broken a federal law- such as the mooted, but yet-to-be-passed (I’m pretty sure) law Chairman Pow mentioned- you are immune to prosecution.

[mmmiiikkkeee]

… and if you go to Thailand and marry a 15 year-old?

Could a well-to-do dirty old man take a 1-month vacation every year, get married, have fun, then divorce his bride only to marry a new one the following year? It might get expensive, but if he’s got nothing else to spend his retirement money on he’d get his paws on a new young chick on a regular basis.

[Chairman_Pow]

Here’s a brief on the bill (appears to have passed).

It does state that one has to prove that their trip was specifically for purposes of sex with a minor, although it doesn’t define what a minor is.

[Little_Nemo]

First off, most age of consent laws are set by the states, so the United States isn’t going to prosecute anyone. But if an American citizen was subject to prosecution for violating the laws of New York during a trip to Ontario and got arrested for having sex with a 17 year old in Toronto, it raises the interesting issue of whether a Canadian traveling from Ontario to New York could also be prosecuted for that same crime.

[CynicalGabe]

I recall a recent article (no cite) in one of my travel magazine stating that the Thai government was cooperating with the US Gov. to prosecute Americans who go overseas and sexually exploit children. As long a both governments are “in on it”, they can prosecute you with no trouble.

[Kozmik]

Keep in mind that American embassies are considered American soil so you would want to make sure that you adhere to all US federal laws. Are there any international law experts that can answer the original question?

[mhendo]

@CynicalGabe

I recall a recent article (no cite) in one of my travel magazine stating that the Thai government was cooperating with the US Gov. to prosecute Americans who go overseas and sexually exploit children. As long a both governments are “in on it”, they can prosecute you with no trouble.

The Australian government has a simliar arrangement. From the Australian Government’s Travel Advisory and Consular Assistance Service:

Some Australian criminal laws, including - but not limited to - those relating to money laundering, bribery of foreign public officials, terrorism and child sex tourism, have extraterritorial effect. Australians who commit such offences outside of Australia may be prosecuted in Australia for those offences.

Australian authorities are committed to combating sexual exploitation of children by Australians overseas. Australians may be prosecuted at home under Australian child sex tourism laws. These laws provide severe penalties of up to 17 years imprisonment for Australians who engage in sexual activity with children under 16 while outside of Australia.

This article, on the website of the Australian Federal Police, gives an overview of the half-dozen or so prosecutions carried out during the first five years after the passing of the Crimes (Child Sex Tourism) Amendment Act 1994.

In one case:

The facts of Regina v Anthony Richard Carr (unreported judgement of His Honour Judge Saunders, District Court of NSW, Criminal Jurisdiction, April 26, 1996) were that the defendant had taken a sexually explicit video of a child, estimated to be around 5-years-old, while holidaying in the Philippines. The defendant was charged and convicted for several offences involving sexual activity with children, under Part IIIA of the Crimes Act 1914 (Cth) and the Crimes Act (NSW). The defendant was sentenced to a cumulative sentence of seven years, which involved a two-year term for the offence committed while overseas.

And in another:

In this case, the defendant attempted to sexually assault a young boy in Australia. The police searched the defendant’s house and found photographs of the defendant engaged in an indecent act with an Asian female aged between 11 and 14 years and sexually explicit photographs of Asian boys. The defendant admitted to police that the photographs with the girl were taken on a recent trip to Thailand and that he had paid the girl about $10. He also admitted to engaging in an indecent act with an Asian boy for which he paid about $5 on another trip to Thailand. He told police that he purchased the other indecent photographs at a club in Thailand and smuggled them into Australia The defendant was charged with committing acts of indecency on a person under the age of 16 outside Australia, and with a number of offences under Queensland law for possessing the photographs. In May 1997, he pleaded guilty to all charges and was sentenced to eight years.

[Iceland_Blue]

Suppose you went overseas to a country where the age of consent for marriage was lower say 14 or 15…if I then returned to the UK where it’s 16/18 how would we be regarded?Would we be treated as married or not?Since we’d been married according to overseas law,then presumably in the UK we would be too…

[Gfactor]

@Iceland_Blue

Suppose you went overseas to a country where the age of consent for marriage was lower say 14 or 15…if I then returned to the UK where it’s 16/18 how would we be regarded?Would we be treated as married or not?Since we’d been married according to overseas law,then presumably in the UK we would be too…

Depends on the state, but the state is not required to respect a marriage that violates its public policy.

http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html/Public_Affairs/455/yls_article.htm

[ShibbOleth]

@kimera

I also know that the legal age in Thailand is 15, so if they do it with anyone under that they can get arrested and charged by both the Thailand and American government.

Do you have a cite for this? To my understanding the age of consent in Thailand is 18, although there might be exceptions to this for marriage.

[kimera]

@ShibbOleth

Do you have a cite for this? To my understanding the age of consent in Thailand is 18, although there might be exceptions to this for marriage.

I read about it first in a newspaper article, I think OCRegister. But I also just searched online and found other sources.
Wikipedia and Ageofconsent.com

Okay, so what about drugs? I can’t believe that if I went overseas to where it was legal and smoked a joint or ate a few shrooms I could get in trouble with the US govt.

[Gfactor]

@ShibbOleth

Do you have a cite for this? To my understanding the age of consent in Thailand is 18, although there might be exceptions to this for marriage.

http://www.ageofconsent.com/thailand.htm

No warranties.