Do they haggle over *Everything* in Brazil?

Factual Questions
1

We get a lot of Brazilian students in at work, buying laptops and so on for their university studies, which is great.

But actually selling them a laptop is an all-day exercise. Every. Single. One. of them asks “Can you do me a special price?”.

No, we say, that’s the price for the laptop. Since you’re not buying a warranty or any accessories, there’s no discounts or deals.

“Ah, but you can do me a special price”.

No, we can’t, we explain. Regardless of how things work in Brazil, in Australia the price is, by and large, not open to negotiation. Take it or leave it.

“Yes, but if I buy laptop, you can do me a special price?”

:smack:

We had a Brazilian customer today who wanted to buy a $1,295 laptop and paid cash. Fine, we said. We’ll give you a free RAM upgrade, to 1Gb. He went off to the bank and came back with $1,200.

“You still need another $95” explained our manager.

“I only have $1,200. That is all the bank give me” said the customer.

“Yes, but the laptop is $1,295, and you’ve only given me $1,200” says the manager.

“You can do me special price” says the customer.

“No, we’ve already given you a free RAM upgrade” explains the manager. “No more discounts.”

“But I am paying cash” says the customer.

“Yes, and you haven’t paid enough cash to pay for this item.”

The conversation went on like this for another 20 minutes- the Brazilian customer absolutely insistent that we were ripping him off by not taking $95 off the price of a New-In-The-Box laptop, and the manager getting increasingly frustrated at this guy’s insistence that we do him a “special price” simply because he was buying something at the marked price.

In the end, he borrowed the $95 off one of his friends, much to everyone’s relief.

Anyway, I’m wondering if this is a cultural thing? Are most medium/large retail transactions in Brazil characterised by the sort of haggling usually found in Middle Eastern Bazaars?

It’s not like this is an isolated incident. Without exaggeration, every single Brazilian who comes into the store to buy a laptop wants a “Special Price” and cannot seem to understand that it just doesn’t work that way, unless you want a warranty and some software as well. If your mate Eduardo is fixing you up with copies of MS Office, that’s fine- but unlike speed limit signs on the Autobahn, the price on that laptop isn’t a “suggestion”- it’s the price, take it or leave it. And trust me, if you leave it, there are plenty of other customers out there who will happily take it without the song and dance normally associated with buying rugs or small arms in Moroccan marketplaces…

2

In a word, yes.

Everything from cars to pineapples are always up for negotiation. Moreso since they hear that other countries give discounts for cash. My sister-in-law (Brazilian) thinks that I can somehow negotiate for $150 off a digital camera because it was the day after Christmas. It still doesn’t sink in that’s not how most places work.

Whenever I go down there, I have to bargain for everything. Otherwise a coca-cola will cost $5 again, and local goods will cost the same as they would here. Imagine getting 2 kg of honey for $10. Here’s honey at a farmers market has cost as much as 5. Oh, also they used a system of predated checks for a long time. You could get a better price by paying in cash immediately or by reducing the check time. It was very wierd, and I’m happy they went to a stable currency. Anyhow, negotiation is something you must do. If these are people from anywhere except Rio and Sao Paulo, then the norm is to be given a price, and then negotiate for 20% off. Even in stores. That’s just the way they rolar.

3

What do they do with an entire shopping cart of groceries?

4

You don’t bargain over groceries at the supermarket. However almost everything else is open game.
One of the fundamental ideas in Brazilian culture is that they always will try to work something out, no matter what the problem: “dar um jeitinho”

So, if you don’t have enough, you ask if they can work out something and they sometimes do. If you are trying to get some official papers submitted at the town clerk’s office, and you are missing a few critical stamps, you might ask them to dar um jeitinho and they might just help you out – not necessarily requiring a bribe.

I like this about Brazil, though I’m not to keen on the haggling aspects.

5

In my time overseas and my time around Washington I’d say it’s MORE likely that outside the English-speaking world you’ll find haggling more often than not. I’ve encountered it as a cultural issue in Central America, the Middle East, and Central Europe.

I think the concept of ‘fixed price’ is one more prevalent in cultures in which that sort of back and forth is more expected on a day-to-day basis. Convenience trumps price in America, by and large. The price is what it is and everyone knows that.

As an interesting aside, I was once in the Shenandoah mountains at a cavern and at the giftshop I ran into a British woman complaining to the kid at the cash register that he’d overcharged her. I had to explain that posted prices in the US do not include sales tax and that was added at the register. The kid at the register looked at us like we were from Mars or something.

6

I do not haggle. Never. Even when buying a car.:frowning:

At market day in Marigot, St Martin I bought some fruit. The woman before me haggled back and forth with the vendor. He acted like she was killing him, but she persisted and eventually got her price. When it was my turn to pay, I handed him the cash and started to walk away. He seemed more upset over my behavior than he was over the bargain seeking woman.

7

Haggling is a big part of many cultures… In America certain things are considered “standard price”, while others (like cars, for instance) are expected to haggle over. But in reality, there is a lot more open to haggling than people realize and/or admit. Even in your original example, Martini, there was a limited amount of haggling going on - you mention the free RAM upgrade and the bargaining that can happen IF certain other purchases are made. As a foreigner in any country there can be a feeling of being treated unfairly just because you don’t understand the local customs, so I’m sure there’s an element of that feeling with your Brazilian customers.

I’m notorious for seeking out good deals, and I try to never pay retail if I can help it. You’d be surprised how much actually IS negotiable if you talk to the right people…

8

Just tell them the special price is 10% higher. And keep raising it the more they ask for a special price.

9

In haggling cultures, he’s left with the unsettling feeling that he should have asked for more… If the other party takes your first price, YOU LOSE.

10

hehehe. OK, that makes sense. Plus, I walked away without waiting for my change.

11

I can understand not wanting to haggle, but if you’re in a place where it is expected, the nice thing to do is to do it yourself.

12

I personally hate haggling. I find it to be a waste of everyone’s time. Of course if you’re in a haggling culture then you are forced to because otherwise you know you’re getting screwed. If I go to a Best Buy or Circuit City, to buy RAM then I know I’m getting screwed. I don’t try to haggle with them, I’ll go online and get it from someone with much lower overhead who is further up the supply chain (or is it down? the good way at least). Although I suppose it’s technically retail either way.

Haggling seems to be a system whereby a businessman would make his profit by screwing people with too much money or naive people. Basically if you’re a normal Brazilian then you wouldn’t get screwed too bad unless you had so much money that you didn’t care. Whereas in non-hagling cultures you set prices high enough so that while everyone pays the same price, it is set at a point to where the business stays profitable (and hopefully grows).

I really have to say this irritates me to no end about why the car business works like this. Cars seem to cost the dealership X price, why can’t I buy a car for X plus overhead of the dealership? That’s it! If they wanna discount it then do it like best buy.

Anyway, I guess I prefer not to haggle. I used to get this a lot at my line of work in a bar. People will offer less than the cost and hope to get a discount. I don’t care how much you have! I want what it costs!

13

The last 2 cars I have purchased, I have had my office manager go and do the haggling for me. I told her I wanted a new Jeep Wrangler soft top, standard tranny, radio/CD player, any color but yellow. I told her that I would give her 20% of anything under sticker. She is a cheapskate and did very well. The dealer told me he was glad he seldom had to deal with anyone like her.

14

I used to work for Office Max. Not to sound prejudiced, but in my experience working there for six years, just about every customer who was of Middle Eastern descent was a first-rate excruciating pain in the ass to deal with and I’d just cringe upon seeing one approach me. I’d try my hardest to set aside any preconceived notions about the outcome, but every time it would turn out that my feelings of dread in dealing with such customers were fully justified. In addition to the thick accents and other language barriers, trying to explain to these people that the price is what it is-- end of story, no ifs ands or buts-- was a frustrating exercise in futility. No matter how many times I told them that prices are non-negotiable they’d press me to lower the price, as if I had the authority to do this. Some of them were outright stubborn and were determined to get a bargain. Not once did I ever make a sale from anyone like this. The transaction would take anywhere from 20-30 minutes, sometimes longer. Meanwhile, other customers who are ready to make a purchase without questioning the price are waiting impatiently and several phone calls are going unanswered because I can’t get to them. It was customers like this that made me glad I don’t drink.

15

I have a good amount of family in Brazil and have spent a good amount of time. From what I recall, you don’t haggle much in the stores in the shopping mall. There is usually a discount if you pay cash or even credit card it all at once. You may be able to haggle a little in some stores but it really varies and almost never in a larger chain.

You don’t haggle in supermarkets or restaurants. Where haggling really comes in is in a farmer’s market and any kind of artisan fair. We went to the Hippie Fair in Ipanema and my wife spent hours haggling over various things. My dad who is Brazilian loves to haggle. I remember when we bought my first car, it took weeks because he haggled and went to five or six different dealers to get a better price. I think for him as well as for my wife, the process of haggling is just as much fun as getting the item.

16

I deal with the same thing. Some people just do not understand that the price of our insurance policies is not negotiable. The prices have been approved by the department of insurance (well, department of managed care in our case) and there is no way to negotiate. I would lose my insurance license if I even appeared to be negotiating on the price.

17

This very much reminds me of helping run a tutoring service. The Indian and Chinese immigrant parents regarded the published price as a high starting point. I actually had to ask one of our students to leave the SAT class. Not only was her dad late on his contracted payment date (which we were pretty lax about), but he was arguing strenuously about that actual amount. She was in tears, but I just can’t save kids from their parents. He was an ass, IMO.

18

This has been my experience as well, although to be fair most of the Middle Eastern customers are very good once we explain that the price really, honestly, and truthfully is not open to negotiation, and that we’re not just engaging in a Theatre of Bargaining production.

We occasionally have to point out to some customers that it’s considered bad form to haggle over the price an item just because you want to pay less, and then proceed to pull out a wallet overflowing with $50 and $100 notes. If you can afford to walk around with the Cote D’Ivoire’s national deficit in your wallet, you can afford to pay full price- especially if you’re not buying any of the add-ons for the product.

19

There are some new and (especially) used car dealerships that have a standard price. There are many people that like that so they get an edge with them.

However, the problem is often with the manufacturer and brand as a whole. You make the reasonable but naive assumption that “Cars seem to cost the dealership X price”. It seems like a self-evident statement but, believe it or not, determining the actual cost of goods can get extremely complicated in retail and the final numbers are open to interpretation.

Car manufacturers may give one price to the dealership but that isn’t the actual cost. Sometimes the dealers don’t pay fully for the car up front and the financing with the manufacturer has all kinds of terms, conditions, and clauses in it. Manufacturers often have very complicated rebate programs in place. That $20,000 invoice price may really be $18,000 when everything gets settled in a few months and the dealer gets the rebate. Some of these rebates may be based on incentive programs that aren’t tied to any one car so it is difficult to say what any one of them actually costs.

20

My dad used to sell used cars. He’d buy a car, tinker on it to fix it up, and resell it by placing an ad in the paper. There would usually be a little haggling involved in that sort of transaction, but he remembers most fondly selling a car to a university student from the Middle East. The guy was going on about $5 here, $10 there, the amount of gas left in the tank. But my dad is good at this too, and came away chuckling, just as I think the student did. I imagine they both thought they got the better deal.