It’s already on life support. I think we are approaching a second American Revolution in which democracy is truly entrusted to the people. I think it is going to be very messy but necessarily all that bloody.
Agree with this. My biggest fear is the US withdrawal from NATO and other important world institutions, and the possibility that he would not just withdraw support from Ukraine, but would actually start selling weapons to his friend Putin.
I think it depends on the specifics. Remember that even Republicans were calling him out during and just after 1/6. It wasn’t until things settled down that they changed their tune to defend him.
If what he does is crazy enough that they feel threatened they will turn on him in a blink.
I think this would be one of the “crazy things” that immediately triggers chaos. Well, either of them: quitting NATO or supporting Putin outright.
I have to disagree. I think there are plenty of Republicans in the House and Senate who would go along with this and make suitable excuses as to why it’s for the best to just shift gears at this point.
Perhaps Susan Collins would make a concerned face, but that’s about it.
Oh, I think most Republicans in the House and Senate are ready to enable whatever Trump does. The point is that their enabling will be part of what triggers the chaos and not in any way be an ameliorating factor.
I don’t think people (not saying you) understand the “suddenly” part of “gradually then suddenly” going bankrupt–in this case, politically bankrupt. We are very close to the “suddenly” phase, and people are not aware.
“I GOT MACED” - Elizabeth from Knoxville
You are fucking kidding me, right?
World sole superpower, glorying in the capability of the firepower to destroy humanity several times over, but if it comes to a bit of claret being spilt in a domestic squabble both Red & Blue sides are going to call in foreign mercenaries to kill Americans?
Ach, poor lady!
Imagine a power vacuum in which neither side has military supremacy–perhaps the US military is standing aside, watching and waiting. Either or both sides could look to foreign powers to tip the balance one way or the other.
I agree with your first sentence and disagree with your second.
The big money will want to avoid armed bands of citizens roaming the land and blowing up statehouses and all the other chaos of overt domestic war.
However, they would welcome overt foreign war. Against Ukraine? Possibly. Trump and his enablers will “discover” a plot by Ukrainians to…do something bad. So, a Trump Administration will aid the noble freedom-lover Putin to wipe out the evil Ukrainians.
Or, the same for, perhaps Canada. Taking over Canada would mean grabbing additional oil and other resources. Selling this as God’s Plan to the evangelicals and the Right Thing To Do to the rest of the right probably wouldn’t take much work.
In any case, a foreign war–a war that can be sold as Absolutely Necessary–would provide every excuse needed to impose martial law domestically. Imprisoning each and every person who has ever criticized Trump will be Job One. Forced-labor camps for everyone labelled a “dissident” could even be an economic winner for some big corporation (or several of them).
Of course it’s the end of democracy, and of course Trump will declare himself President-for-Life.
But a foreign war is the key to it all. Expect it.
I think the spirit of your post is correct, and I think Trump and his nazis could very well attempt such a thing, but I don’t think it would work.
I think what we will see in the face of any such “crazy shit” (as I call it) is Blue states banding together and opposing the president and the current order and also gaining the support of most cities in Red states, as they are blue too (Red states will try to control “their” cities, but they will fail; Blue states will not have control over their rural areas, but that won’t matter much).
I think this scenario can be triggered very, very easily at this point. I don’t think Trump can get enough power soon enough to make his foreign war ploy work.
Another good point, and an extremely worrisome one. Except I take issue with the term “selling”. He’d just give them to Putin, and then bask in the subsequent praise from his #1 hero. Of course Trump also adores Kim Jong Un, but Putin is much richer and has a nicer palace.
This I can certainly agree with. I think tipping points are very real, and very dangerous.
Get ready to sing this song
The “survival” of the entity currently known as the United States of America is not something Trump followers or Republicans want. They want to destroy what they see as a weak and decadent country.
Yes.
I think the irony of our current political polarization is that we are polarized mostly with respect to superficial aspects of the system. I think both sides are deeply sick of the current order and will mostly cooperate in getting rid of it when the time comes.
As one example, does anyone like the US Senate and the filibuster, etc.? I have seen Conservatives defend it, and the reason is clearly that it currently advantages the Red Side over the Blue, but I don’t very few people in the absolute sense admire it. Multiply that by 100 different things, and we will end up disposing of the whole current governmental and economic order.
I don’t see the country unraveling if Trump gets re-elected, not in the sense of a civil war or whatever.
Think about it: if the maniacs in flyover country control the government, why would they be foolish enough to walk away from it? As for the opposition, do they have the courage or initiative to Do What Must Be Done? I don’t think any of those things is true.
I do think that the federal government as we know it would cease functioning. We’d have the pro-forma vestige of constitutional government, but most other services would become snarled and obstucted and shut down. (Except for the parts that would run wild; expect ICE pogroms at whatever loosely qualifies as border). And of course a flurry of protests that would be put down in ways we haven’t seen since Kent State.
It would be bad. It would be the beginning of a long unraveling, not a rapid one.
Of course… if Trump doesn’t win re-election? Big question mark. Could be nothing, could be awful, that’s the best my crystal ball can do.
I don’t think we will see a hot civil war with clearly defined sides a la 1861.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean, but I envision something like the West Coast states saying, “Hey, we’re a huge fucking chunk of the US economy, and we’re going to do XYZ instead of the stated ABC, and, by the way, fuck Trump and the Supreme Court.” And then you might have the New England states saying, “Yeah, we’re supporting that too.” And also some Red state counties, cities, etc.
And then the question is what happens next.
Precisely. It would be a real hodgepodge.
In the Red states, perhaps.
In Red states. Which could trigger a response from neighboring Blue states, Blue cities, etc.
I think it would be both. It could happen faster than anyone expects but then take a long time to figure out a solution.
I don’t think they’d bother with Canada because it’s too big and cold. They’d be more likely to invade a smaller and “easier” target in the Western Hemisphere that not only has oil wells but much nicer weather: Cuba. Even though Castro is long gone, the existence of Communist Cuba still sticks in the craw of American right-wingers. Plus, the Cuban diaspora makes up a large segment of voters in Florida who’ve been waiting for a Bay of Pigs II for years so why not pay them back for supporting the GOP? A successful invasion and toppling of the current Marxist regime would all but guarantee that Florida would be solidly Republican for at least the next 50 years.
I actually think this is plausible.
This doesn’t seem all that dramatic to me, blue states defying the US government. We’ve seen forms of that defiance for a while now, in the form of sanctuary cities, marijuana legalization, etc. The Federal government goes a little nuts, the blue states will at most be like “We will delay complying with this SCOTUS decision as we believe we have grounds to challenge the legitimacy of Justice Jeanine Pirro’s being appointed to the 12th and 13th seats of the Dershowitz court.”
If there’s to be any real kind of face-off, I would put it at the California-Mexico border, or equally likely Arizona. If I were a President who liked attention and loved trolling the libs, I might send the 3rd Infantry Division to San Diego and dare the California National Guard to say boo about it. And the 101st might occupy Chicago to fight protesters and shoplifters just like they occupied Detroit in '67.
These are… not things we want to see. At all. This would be worse than the 1960s, possibly as bad as the 1850’s. Which is, yes, disturbingly within striking distance of the 1860s.