I ask this for a couple of reasons. I’m thinking it’s a Cecil-type query, but at the same time, I am not sure even the great Cecil could differentiate/consolidate/extrapolate dozens of years worth of studies to come up with a firm-ish answer.
But on the off-chance that the good people on these boards has any opinions…it’s an interesting question.
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We take it for granted that vitamins do what they indicate they will do, i.e. deliver 40/50/100/1000 percent of a day’s requirement of said nutrient to a user’s stomach.
No claims are made for what the nutrients might do, or how effective they might be. We just…take them and figure it can’t hurt us. (And except for cases of overdosing, I don’t believe they do)
But two things:
I used to listen to CNN at work, a number of years ago, and enjoyed the medical hour with Sanjay Gupta. During a couple of his shows, he mentioned that he was from a family that practically developed the vitamin industry…and that he had no faith in vitamins of that type at all, that they were useless. But he never elaborated, that I heard. I have no idea if he’s the only doctor living who thinks vitamins are bunk, but the impression is given that he has a reasonable base for such an assumption. And so I wonder if other doctors think the same thing, or whether there is some reasoning behind that opinion that normal folk are just ignorant of.
The prescription of extremely high dosages of certain vitamins for certain situations makes me wonder a couple of things. I’ve had a couple-few friends who have been prescribed doses of Vitamin D that made my eyes bug out. HUGE amounts. (To no effect, that I can recall; my sweetie is on a regimen right now, as well, with no effect so far.) It all makes me wonder how effective the human body is at uptaking and using said vitamins; I can only imagine it’s different for varying minerals, but you have to wonder why, if in one pill you can get 100 percent of 10 different things, people still need to take extra of this or that or the other. Does the body use it? Get rid of it? Store it? I could understand the varying medical reasons <nothing extraordinary, necessarily> that might make one person uptake something well, and another not at all, through the digestive system. But still…10-20 times the ‘daily dose’? Something makes my nose wrinkle. I just don’t know what it is.
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TL:DR---------I could think further along this path if I had some kind of confirmation that yes, vitamins do, generally, work as intended. -----------
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Any opinions? Or is this a very ‘DUH’ question, and I have been focusing on small pebbles in a huge stream?
For instance, lack vitamin C, and one will have connective tissue problems and develop scurvy. That’s a fact.
Also, lack niacin (B3) and you get pellagra. Etc.
Outside of those specific things, lots of claims made about vitamins don’t stack up.
I suspect it is those claims that Gupta doubts.
Caveat: Vitamin D may do a lot more than originally suspected.
Also, he’s probably right that a lot of the pills don’t get absorbed very well. Oversight of vitamin manufacture is not as good as oversight of prescription pharmaceuticals.
Today, you are mostly likely to have a shortage of only 3 vitamins:
Vit D (too much sunblock!)
Calcium (this is because it’s a bulky vitamin, it’s impossible to get a dose in a std multi-vit)
B-12
Women may add Iron to that list and also a few others when pregnant or nursing.
However, a multi-vitamin once a day is at worst a tiny waste of cash, and at best insurance. So, why not?
Now, other than Vit C, there is no use, and considerable danger to megadose. Even with Vitamin C, there are many doubts as to the usefulness of megadoses. For example, 2-3 “Airborne” a day = a megadose of Vit C However, at that level it also seems to be harmless. Thus, if you think it works for you, again- why not?
There are other supplements that apparently might be useful- Reservatol, Fish Oil (Omega 3) Glucosamine, Probiotics, etc.
Now see, it is stuff like this that makes me wonder. There is one camp that says “vitamin pills don’t absorb well and you are wasting your money.” Then sometimes medical people say don’t take too many, you will get vitamin poisoning.
Well, the way I look at it, you can’t have it both ways. They only way you can ever get “too much” of a vitamin is if it is absorbing. If it is not being absorbed, then it should not be an issue.
With the obvious exception of those vitamins produced as pharmaceuticals, whose effectiveness in treating select medical conditions have been validated through lab and clinical trials and the FDA/HPFBI/Insert appropriate regulatory agency here. Injectable vitamins (e.g. Infuvite, Vit C, K1, etc) or nasal sprays (e.g. cyano/hydroxocobalamin) are the ones I’m familiar with. Offhand, I can’t think of any pharmaceutical vitamins in tablet form, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any; I just never worked with them!
So some vitamins, prepared a certain way and taken in a certain manner for the treatment of specific things have been shown to be effective. They all require a prescription, to my knowledge. I have no idea what this means for multivitamins/health products and their effectiveness.
The lack of good oversight mentioned above means that there can be a wider variation in bioavailability of the vitamins (and minerals) present. They may not contain the most digestible form, for example.
They may be referring to different brands. Again, the lack of good oversight means they can vary widely.
Nobody here has mentioned specific vitamins, have them? Not everything that goes through the gut gets digested and absorbed at the same rate, efficiency, and amount. Some things are preferentially taken over others, some may be better absorbed in different conditions, the body may just uptake some more than others, that particular person may react differently from others, etc.
Consumer Reports did an article on this and they found all the major name brands (such as one a day) and the major generics from Walgreens, Wal-Mart, CVS and the like all contained as much vitamins in a capacity to be absorbed as stated on the label so the argument “the vitamin isn’t absorbed” is a pretty weak one.
Yeah if you go to the dollar store, you may have an issue or two with absorbability but I wouldn’t put any faith in the argument if you buy name brand or a generic from a name drugstore.
A vitamin is basically a catalyst, it sets off a transaction in the body. Think of it like this, you can use a match to light an oven or you can use a blowtorch to light the same oven. Both will work, but using a blowtorch is a bit much
For what it’s worth, 200% your daily levels of Vitamin C will cause you mild GI Disturbances according to my pharmacology class. What those “GI disturbances” are, they didn’t really specify, but just pointing out that even too much Vitamin C can be a bad thing.
Though the big thing people like to point out is that Vitamin C along with a few others are water soluble vitamins, and thus are more likely to be excreted in the urine if you have an excess. But apparently, just taking in too much Vitamin C could upset the stomach a lil’ bit, though it won’t build up in your body.
As they pointed out in Toxicology- “only dose makes a poison”, everything is a toxin in high enough doses or quantities.
Well, there’s two things- it could cause loose stools if you are not used to it, and any acid could cause upset. But overall, it’s as safe or more than aspirin.
Sorry if this is a silly nitpick, or if it seems pointlessly annoying, but I’ve always understood Calcium to be a ‘mineral’ in dietary terminology - has the term ‘vitamin’ broadened to include non-trace minerals, without my noticing?
(I know ‘vitamin’ has broadened beyond its original etymology, BTW - I’ve just never seen it used to include stuff like Calcium)
The different vitamins are very different substances that play different roles in our metabolism. They have been thrown into one category because they are all organic molecules which we need to take up in trace amounts, because they or compounds derived from them play an important role as coenzymes or cofactors for enzymes, and our body cannot produce them.
Absorption rates, excretion of excess amounts, accumulation, toxicity of overdoses are different for each individual type of vitamin. It is very difficult to get too much of vitamin C because it is highly water soluble and gets flushed out in the kidney. In contrast, poorly water soluble vitamins can accumulate in your body fat, and a constant moderate overdose can over long time cause problems.
It appears that Roche Pharmaceuticals believes that multivitamins are effective - they recommend the use of multivitamins to counter the effects on vitamin absorption by Xenical (Orlistat) (Orlistat prevents fat absorption by the gut, so fat soluble vitamins get excreted with the fat). Of course, this is the company that sells Berocca - but I have no reason to believe that their advice is not sound.
If we keep it to vitamins you have two kinds.
Water soluble and fat soluble.
Water solubles like ACE are flushed out the body once it has it’s threshold. So you cannot in theory and your body is working properly overdose on them.
Fat soluble ones like ADEK are stored in fat and can be very dangerous in high doses.
‘A’ in carrots and liver for instance can be very dangerous to pregnant women etc if taken in by the body which has no need for it.
Problem is multivitamins carry them all and if you are eating a healthy diet you will in fact be getting too much fat soluble ones.
We really don’t need added vitamins unless your diet is poor.
Vit D has been found to be low because of sunblocks and leads to calcium deficiency and osteoporosis amongst other things.
You should have 10 mins a day unprotected sun exposure to keep levels of the D at good levels. Even if it is just your face.
Here in Egypt many women cover up and dress modestly but have been found not to be lacking in Vit D which would be surprising. This is because we have year round sunshine and faces are exposed. The niqab/burkha wearing ones have though been found to be deficient.
If you eat a carrot the Vit A will be transferred into the blood stream, then processed by the liver then stored in the fat.
Xenical targets fat in the diet not a vegetable like a carrot?
I’m wary of trusting pharmaceutical companies since the ‘great swine flu vaccine fiasco’
Which is why asian and muslim women living in Scotland are at increased risk of vitamin D deficiency. Low sunlight levels and reduced vitamin D production from genetic or social factors. Link
If you eat food that contains fats and fat-soluble vitamins while taking xenical, during the digestion process the vitamins will be absorbed into the fat. This is chemistry. The Xenical then blocks fat absorption, so the fat (containing fat-soluble vitamins and other fat-soluble materials) runs down to the colon and is excreted (leaving a layer or orange fat floating on the toilet).
