Si Amigo said that in so many words before your first post. You’re the one who is making it into a political statement.
Si Amigo wrote:
Maybe at your desk that translates in so many words to, “they actually do get paid, and over the last 30 years they’ve always been paid fully and on time but maybe not this time because some one-off wed site said so”
But at my desk, “the military isn’t getting paid” in so many words means “the military isn’t getting paid.”
It’s a big deal to me because we always trot out the military to make a point, and I get tried of being portrayed as poor helpless souls that can’t manage our lives.
And because I had an E-6 ask me today if it was true that he wasn’t going to get paid.
Did you tell him that he would get paid in a timely manner, or did you tell him he would get paid eventually? When it comes to paying the bills and buying the groceries, there is a crucial difference between the two. If my superiors told me “You will be getting paid” and there was no paycheck on payday, you then saying “I didn’t say you would be paid now!” would not make you look good.
Or do base commissaries take I.O.U.s now?
I did the most informal of all polls with the question what does the following statement mean:
“You [the military] will not get paid” what do you think that means? I asked three people that passed my desk over the last hour, and without prompting they said “it means I’ll never get paid.”
When I asked them if if could mean that they would get paid late but would get paid, they all said a variation of "well the statement you asked said “not get paid;” you didn’t say “would get paid late. Those are two different things.” I agree.
Additionally, over at least the last 30 years, the military has always been paid on time, even during lapses in appropriations. There are 10 days left until the next pay day, there is no sign that the procedures used over the next 30 plus years will change.
The site is to fight ignorance, right?
The statement “the military will not get paid” is incorrect.
The statement “the military will get paid late” is incorrect.
But by all means keep trying to find a way to parse those statements in a way to make they correct.
Even saying that, the larger point, that this shutdown is somehow screwing the military is wrong. There are a lot of things wrong with this shutdown. The fact that our elected officials can’t get their act together is wrong. The fact that the fringe on both sides tees them up is wrong.
But stating that military pay is being messed with (when it’s not) and it’s on Facebook memes, and emails everywhere over the weekend, is just the type of nonsense that we should be fighting here.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the one point I’m wrong on.
Where in my post did I ask you about polls? I asked you what you specifically told that E-6.
And I get my car insurance from an actual five star general officer!
Like many of us, he’s seen the postings on other web sites and seen the scare mongering emails. I told the E-6 what you’ve seen me write:
“The last thing either of the parties wanted to do is be the party that doesn’t pay the military on time. In all my 30 years in the military, we were never once paid late; during sequestration, CRs or other lapses in appropriations. Federal civilians do get paid late frequently in these scenarios, but the President and the Democrats said that wouldn’t be the case this year. It would be almost impossible to foresee a situation where Federal civilians would be paid on time but the military would be paid late or not at all. And with 10 days left until your next payday, there is a lot of time to put the legislation that we used in the past in place to ensure that it doesn’t happen this time. I can’t imagine a scenario where anything would happen other than you’ll be paid fully and on time.”
Now you are backpedaling and saying there is still time for them to get paid in a timely manner. And have yet to do the leg work and quote a cite that supports your position.
So I finish by saying, good day to you sir!
- What I saw you write was that you told him he would get paid, period. If instead you told him what you just told us I wouldn’t have had to ask the question in the first place.
- “Those who think that history simply repeats itself are doomed to be crushed by it.”
There is no question that paychecks will now go out on time on February 1st, since the government is reopened through February 8th.
The bill referenced in the second sentence has passed, though as I said only covers through February 8th. If there is a subsequent shutdown, things may change.
My main point, which I’m sure you know Czarcasm, is that the military has always been paid fully and on time. They were in the 16 Day shutdown in 2013, and they were in the 27 day shutdowns of 1995-1996. And there was no chance that they weren’t going to be paid fully and on time now, especially with the commitment to pay other federal workers fully and on time. We have no records (here at the Pentagon) that shows anything else.
I can’t make it any more plain than this:
The military has always been paid fully.
The military has always been paid on time.
I don’t know how it can be made any more clear than that.
As I said up thread, the belief that the military wasn’t going to get paid - fully and on time - is just the type of political grandstanding, half-truth and fear mongering that we should be fighting here.
It is NOT automatic that they get paid in a timely fashion if a government shutdown occurs, so there is always a possibility that a delay may occur. This is a fact.
That’s OK. The rest of us don’t know how to make any clearer that you are the only one making your argument.
The rest of us are discussing an actual pertinent real-world question: whether the military would get their regular paychecks if the government shutdown had extended into February. The answer to that was conditional on the passage of a bill to do so.
Everybody in the thread had already agreed that payment would be made eventually. You disrupted that to say the same thing louder and *less *clearly. Everybody agrees with that as well. You dug your own foxhole and died on that hill simultaneously. A neat feat, but not one I would bother to duplicate.
So the fact is if there was/is a shutdown they (all government employees including the military) would not have have gotten their paycheck at the designated time. That’s a factual answer to the OP. It’s not a meme, it’s how the law works. This whole smoke and mirrors argument of historically this hasn’t happened is besides the point and doesn’t address the OP and doesn’t belong in General Questions IMHO. Spifflog citing an individual with no known or verifiable identification isn’t a cite either, just how are we supposed to know who this E-6 person is?
If the Federal Government has acted in one fashion, with one philosophy for the last three plus decades, we can be all but certain they will act that way again. Military pay is sacrosanct in this building, in this city, this Congress, this White House and in this country. Nothing in my professional experience says otherwise.
I received my military pay on time for 780 straight paychecks through CRs and government shutdowns. Could I have been 100% certain the next week? You’d say no, I’d say yes. To say that the “military isn’t getting paid” is just flat out disingenuous and misleading, and in no way helpful to the public discourse on the shutdown.
It reminds me of my mother and social security. Once every six months she’d read something or see something on TV and she’s tell me “they say that the government isn’t going to pay social security any more, I’m really worried.” Was it possible? I guess it was. You’d would have told her “yes” I said “no.”
There is a chance that none of us will have to pay our taxes this year due to an asteroid strike or the zombie apocalypse too. Those and the military not getting paid on time or at all have an equal chance of happening.
Having said all of this, if you really believe the statement “military isn’t getting paid” is accurate, I can’t help you.
Who are you arguing with here?
I think it may be me. If that’s the case then yes he truly cannot help me and please stop trying to do so. I like understanding how the real world works and how to factually answer questions in a logical manner in General Questions. Arguments belong in the Pit and I have no interest in going there since it doesn’t add to my life to argue a point to death that is already settled.
Let’s not move the goalposts. You asked a specific question that I was responding to, namely, seeking a cite that service members would receive paychecks on time following the end of the shutdown. I provided a news article that affirms that this will be the case.
Now, you’re asking a different question: if the shutdown had continued, what would be the situation with respect to pay for service members? The factual answer is, it depends. If the shutdown were to continue for a couple weeks past the pay date, the issuance of pay would be delayed, but for military personnel on active duty, the law requires that once the government reopens, full compensation for all time worked must be made.
Further in the “it depends” answer is that in the past, Congress has saw fit not to delay the payment of pay and benefits to service members. During the 2013 shutdown, two different laws were enacted to provide for compensation of active duty troops: one prior to the shutdown, and another about halfway through the shutdown.
This is one of the cases where the precise question asked may lead to different answers, equally precise. For example:
- Do troops earn pay during a shutdown? Yes.
- If the shutdown continues beyond a pay date, do troops receive a paycheck? No.
- How likely is it that troops won’t be paid on time? Recent history indicates Congress takes action to prevent troops from missing a paycheck.
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No one said they would not eventually get paid. No one.
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That’s the point right there.
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History doesn’t matter. It is not a prediction of the future.
Thanks for making my stance clear. Point number 1 I agree with. I in fact said that. I said they would not get paid on time. Point number 2 proves is jiberess. The point was that if the government shut down they would not get paid on time, which is what people living paycheck to paycheck depend upon. . Point number 3 is conjecture, not fact. Your arguement is dont worry, the people in power will do the right thing. A populance cannot depend on that.
You initially phrased you point in a way in which some readers could reasonably believe that was the case. You should be the first to clarify, not argue, on that point.
Nobody is saying that past practice is a guarantee of future action. I think you’re arguing this point only because you have strong political views on this issue, and you feel thy anyone who disagrees with you must be factually wrong.