Do You Believe Everything Happens For A Reason

[Oy]

@SnakeSpirit

An extreme example, but still defensible. You sneeze. You spread germs. Depending on the germs you can either strengthen the immune system of others or give them a life-threatening illness. Their susequent death or survival affects others, ad infinitum. Or perhaps the reason for your sneeze was just to clear out your nose so you’d be more pleasant as you walk into that job interview, which might effect whether you get the job or not. If you want the job, it furthers your goals, furthers your employer’s goals, furthers the consumers’ goals, and so on. Not that these goals are the same; your goals are more individualistic, your employer’s are more collective, and who knows about the consumer? Perhaps the consumer just wants self-gratification, perhaps they want to destroy the world. Certainly your sneeze did not destroy the world, but it could be a part of a process that manifested that destiny!

You seem to be positing two things here:

one, (speading of germs) that the most minute of actions may have large consequences. This is inarguable, but has nothing to do with Purpose.

The other (clearing out your nose), which you seem to propose as an alternative, isn’t an alternative - it is the point you originally seemed to be arguing. And (forgive me if you find this insulting), it’s absurd! Sure, it might clear out your nose and make you more likely to get a job you wanted. But equally likely, it may make you sniffle and less likely to get the job you wanted. The idea that things worked out for the best in the end is no less (and no more) blind faith than the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent God making things work according to His Holy Plan ™.

IF you want to argue that, given all the actions and all the co-operative and competing interests in the world, events progress so as to lead to the maximum good, in the same way that, in a totally free (and universally knowledgable) market, prices end up at the lowest level they can be given the price of manufacture, I *might * find that a bit more plausible (that idea requires thought, and might be good food for debate). But again, this would not suggest a Purpose, any more than market forces do.

[glee]

@SnakeSpirit

Oh my. It seems so simple and obvious to me. I’ll expound:

First, let’s remember that I said I believe there is a purpose, not that I know what those purposes are. But let’s take your example:

You drop a cup and it breaks. This changes things. It may have made you more aware of how fragile cups are, and you subsequently might be more careful. Or, it may remind you that things have been going bad for you lately, and in anger you deliberately take out all your cups and smash them. In either case, or in any other possible case, you have altered your perception, which will tend to change your behaviour, and your changed behaviour will affect others with whom you interact. Perhaps blowing off steam will make you feel better and you’ll make a better impression on that cute potential significant other…

The immediate purpose of anything happening, in a human sense, is that it changes the perceiver – in some way, or direction, and/or in some degree.

I’m not positing a ‘Holy Puppeteer’ predetermining your fate and providing off-stage cues; you have freedom of choice, and you can learn from the outcomes surrounding you. Generally these ‘lessons’ will have the effect of improving your performance, but some are more dense than others.

Well you’ve certainly explained what you mean by a purpose.
Anything that happens as a result of an action, be it getting a job or destroying the world is the purpose of that action.
And you distinguish random chance from your theory how?

[Barbarian]

Snakespirit, you’re a liar.

In your inital response to my post, you said

Snakespirit
But I detect fear in your convictions.

and

What are you so afraid of?

then we have this little exchange.

Originally Posted by Barbarian
But if you think that my pointing out that the ‘initial reasoners’ are afraid makes me afraid, not them, well, you’ve got a novel interpretation.
Origininally posted by Snakespirit
My, how people can put words in one’s mouth. That’s not what I said, and not what I think

Hey guess what? It is what you said, and it is what you meant.

Go take your willful misinterpretations somewhere else.

[SnakeSpirit]

@Oy!

<Lots of argumentation>

Oy, no offense, but you seem unable to understand what I am saying, despite my lengthy posts.
Perhaps you are unable to grasp the concept, perhaps I am unable to communicate it. If you haven’t gotten it by now, I don’t think you will; no fault implied. Forgive me, but I’m going to stop trying.

[SnakeSpirit]

@glee

Well you’ve certainly explained what you mean by a purpose.
Anything that happens as a result of an action, be it getting a job or destroying the world is the purpose of that action.
And you distinguish random chance from your theory how?

Thank you, glee.
However, to your question, I thought it would be clear that I do not believe in random chance.
Is there some scientific evidence that random chance exists? Who knows, you might just convert me!

[SnakeSpirit]

@Barbarian

Snakespirit, you’re a liar.

Well, I warned you.

HAW, HAW, HAW!