Do you believe in ghosts?

Could you define what you mean by dragons?

At first I ment this as a joke, but I now must side with Diogenes the Cynic on his point about needing a clear definition of what you’re talking about before you can have a useful discussion. First thing I thought when I read your post was that of course dragons exist. There’s the Komodo dragon and the bearded dragon. We can go measure them and test them and everything.

Now that I’m agreeing with Dio, I just have to tease him: Ghosts exsist because God created them. As we all know (with 99.99% certainty) God works in mysterious ways.

IMO, the OP was looking for ghost stories and/or personal “interactions” that could be related here as anecdotes. Or perhaps she wanted a poll of all those who believe-a good reason to move the thread. Did she ask where is the scientific proof re ghosts?

I’m fairly certain she did not want to have to define the term “ghost” or “believe” or to defend wanting to discuss them.

True enough. :slight_smile: But neither did the OP. Neither did I, come to that. All I’ve said is that there are unknowable things out there-why not ghosts as well? Again, ghosts in Victorian dress, holding bloody sabers or whathaveyou-no and no and no.

I agree with Dio -most likely the OP’s husband was tricked by the light or suffered some sort of brain fart (yes, an official term) or something. The lady who died in that bathroom, if she did die there, isn’t hanging around in the mirror, like the Queen in Snow White.
General Remark:
There is a certain amount of picayune pedantry at the Dope that is annoying. There are ways of showing contempt for someone’s viewpoint or desire for discussion without ever being open about it. This thread shows that well.

To me it’s like NASCAR or kittens or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Britney Spears-if you don’t share the interest, that’s fine. And unlike what was said upthread, I don’t think one needs to agree just to post in any thread. I think the intent of the thread was misunderstood by page 2.
But why set out to disprove the premise in the first place?(I realize this was posted in GD, so that is the reason for the requests for definitions etc. But once it was moved-a simple yes or no would have sufficed). Discussion was shut down by the dismissive tone of the replies. Maybe she picked the wrong board-or maybe things are taken a bit too seriously around here. YMMV.

People like to talk about what ifs and the paranormal. I know factually that time travel is not possible, but it’s fun to think of where you might go and who you might see IF it were. Same with ghosts. Same with aliens from Galaxy Zebtroid. Same with winning the lottery. It’s all speculation-where is the harm? Why are ghosts a no-no to speculate about? :confused:

When my son is too old for Santa, I will enjoy sharing with him the ways that I tried to Find Out if he was real, as well as when I put the pieces together that he wasn’t actual, living in the North Pole with elves etc. I am sure I am opening myself up to the contempt of all here when I say that Santa is very much alive in those who appreciate imagination and giving. (that was my treacle for the day; I’m watching my weight).

Santa is not quite the same as ghosts, but do none of you enjoy hearing about old Aunt Margie’s place, way out of town, where strange noises are heard and it is said that Uncle Vern walks? Margie didn’t like men and didn’t like Vern most of all, so one day…It seems to me that the OP wanted to share the story of the Old Woman Apparition in Her Bathroom Mirror. We can be certain that won’t happen here. Is this a good thing?
featherlou and Batsinabelfry are spot on, IMO. This is not a thread where discussion is desired. It wasn’t a debate about the existence of ghosts or a referendum on the intelligence of those who believe. It is now.

She asked “do you believe in ghosts?” and she asked it in GD. She didn’t ask for fun stories. She asked “do you believe?” Maybe that’s a poll, maybe it’s a debate, but either way, there’s nothing wrong with asking her to define her terms and clarify her question, especially in GD.

Then why was it posted in Great Debates?

I can’t answer that, but given the OP and the first few responses, it did not seem suitable for GD, and starting it in GD was a mistake by the OP. I believed that there would be no debate. Had I forseen the turn of the thread, I’d have left it alone, but I think the fact that the thread was started in GD is irrelevant at this point.

I disagree. This whole round-and-round is about exchanges that occurred when this thread was still in GD and when I was responding in the accepted manner for the debate forum. I believe the original location of the thread is relevant if I am to respond to assertions that the OP wasn’t looking for a debate. Even if you think the OP made a mistake, was there anything wrong with my assuming that she had not?

Well, I don’t think she was, borne out by the fact that she hasn’t returned since the thread became a sort of debate. YMMV.

Mind you, I’m not saying you shouldn’t be arguing your point. IMHO is just fine for that.

Matter of fact, at this point I’m not sure what I’m saying, and I shall retire in some disarray until I get my shit together.

[quote]

To me it’s like NASCAR or kittens or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Britney Spears-if you don’t share the interest, that’s fine. And unlike what was said upthread, I don’t think one needs to agree just to post in any thread. I think the intent of the thread was misunderstood by page 2.
But why set out to disprove the premise in the first place?(I realize this was posted in GD, so that is the reason for the requests for definitions etc. But once it was moved-a simple yes or no would have sufficed). Discussion was shut down by the dismissive tone of the replies. Maybe she picked the wrong board-or maybe things are taken a bit too seriously around here. YMMV.

[quote]

What do you mean, are you supposed just to make a post saying “yes” or “no”? No explaining of why you think so?

Look at the thread title again.

For me personally, it’s annoying when people have this careless attitude with the truth.

For instance, speculating about winning the lottery, and speculating about ghosts is not the same. Winning the lottery is possible, ghosts are impossible. This distinction might seem insignificant to you, but to me it matters.

Of course you can speculate about aliens from Zebtroid the same way you speculate about ghosts. But the thing is, some people actually think that it’s possible that ghosts might exist.

And some people think that aliens from Galaxy Zebtroid exist as well. :dubious:

Thank you, Frank.
I think this discussion is about as dead as a day old biscuit (sorry, been reading too many sampiro posts).

If you all want to exhaustively prove that there are no such things as ghosts, have at it.
That’s not a discussion or “debate” (how to debate such an elemental truth? What are the sides to be taken: ghosts don’t exist and ?) I care to be a part of. Late for my seance… :wink:

Ehm yeah, that was an early draft line I thought I had deleted. Also the formatting is messed up. :smack:

It’s possible for aliens to exist (just highly unlikely that they would be able to traverse the vast distances of space and find their way to us), so that’s not really comparable to ghosts.

No worries here, mr jp. And may I say, completely OT, that I hope someday to visit your beautiful country? I’ve always had a soft spot for Denmark. (and not just because of Hamlet!).

:slight_smile:

It’s pretty nice here. Except in the winter. (September to June)

You can’t scare me-I live near Chicago. We get much the same weather, I’m thinking. You get more darkness (or do you? I’m always confused when it comes to Northern Lights and things like that.) We get more heat and humidity-the two things I hate most in weather…

I am still here. Sorry to have taken a little time off. I must say I left the thread for awhile when the bickering started. And now that I read Trunk’s mean post, I wish I hadn’t came back.

Anyway, I guess nobody can make anyone believe or disbelieve. That is something you must decide on your own. It is surprising to see how strongly people feel about the issue, though.

I am also curious as to why people believe or do not believe in ghosts. Some people say they did not believe until they had a convincing experience. Others say they would not believe even if they had such an experience. I would guess the majority of believers are like me and just see no reason not to believe. Anyway, it doesn’t upset me whether sometimes decides to believe ghosts or real or wether they decide it is silliness.

What reason do you have for not believing in my invisible friend Bob?

Serious question – I’m trying to understand what you mean by your statement. Are you saying that (a) believing in ghosts does no harm; (b) you don’t want to hurt the feelings of ghost-believers, so you might as well go along with what they say; or (c) no one’s proven the negative (i.e. that ghosts don’t exist), so the default position is that they do exist?

Is is a, b, c or something else?

Hi,

It’s “c.” I believe in some other things that can’t be seen as well and do not see why it is a big deal to do so.

I don’t believe in “Bob,” though unless he is real to you. :slight_smile:

Seriously though, many people have claimed to have experienced spirits over time. Assuming they were not deluded, how could that be explained?

They were either mistaken or lying. Have you actually read this thread? Many people claiming stuff is not evidence for anything.

I’ll give you a reason. It’s physically impossible.

That was badly phrased: many people claiming things which appear to be in violation of all natural laws is not evidence for anything. It’s been said that the plural of anedote is not data, but that depends on the nature of the anecdote. If many people claim things which are unextraordinary - anecdotes about cats in their backyards - fine, that’s evidence. It’s data, since the standards of proof for such a commonplace claim are fairly low.

If many people claim things which are unusual but not impossible, such as anecdotes about there being penguins in their backyards, well, I’m a little dubious: I’d like some pretty hard evidence, not merely stories about how “my brother in law once saw one late at night”. A photo would be good. A few tracks. A recording of their calls. See if you can trap one.

Now, if many people have anecdotes about the near-impossible, that there are tiny pink winged horses in their backyards, frankly I’m as sceptical as all hell, and those stories ain’t data. The burden of proof is on the claimants to back up their stories, and the more extraordinary the anecdotes, the tougher the standards of proof required.

Now, tiny pink winged horses are one thing - they don’t violate any laws of physics that I know of, although the flight part may be a bit tricky given their size, and it’s hard to see how they could have the bone structure and musculature to support both hooved walking and flapping. It’s a tough sell, but I suppose they’re barely - just barely - at least physically possible.

But ghosts - which are supposedly intangible and incorporeal yet visible, apparently capable of speech with no organs of vocalisation, seemingly able to cause chemical reactions on photographic film despite being unseen by the naked eye, reputedly capable, despite their intangibility, of flinging material objects about, allegedly able to appear and disappear at will and travel through solid matter - the whole range of feats which defy every physical law, in fact - that makes them impossible.

The standards of their proof is gonna hafta be orders of magnitude tougher than those for pygmy pink pegasuses, and “many people claim” doesn’t even begin to cut it. Given human fallibility, gullibility, suggestibility and plain old-fashioned deceitfulness, these anecdotes don’t even approach being data.

Mama_Hound, might I suggest a little reading for you: Carl Sagan’s The Demon-Haunted World is an excellent and highly readable primer in critical thinking, common errors in reasoning, the scientific method, and standards of evidence and proof. It’s a near indispensable book.