Maybe, but do you really think Trump got elected in 2016 because people were thinking: “Well, he’s a conman, but he won’t be able to pardon himself, so once elected, he’ll behave honorably.”
It could be difficult. Executive privilege is a nebulous concept and the Supreme Court has been hesitant to issue a clear set of rules on what it encompasses. But one pattern seems to be that testimony is less covered by executive privilege than documentation. And another pattern seems to be that former presidents have less power to invoke executive privilege than current presidents.
I may be misremembering but weren’t a lot of Trumpsters subpoenaed by congress and many claimed executive privilege, gave congress the finger and never showed up and absolutely none of them were ever punished for contempt of congress?
Yes, but they were acting under orders from the current President. Trump will lose the authority to order people not to testify after January 20.
My take on the matter: I’d be surprised if Trump hasn’t already issued himself a pardon, along with another pardon for himself tomorrow, and still another on Monday. In fact, I would think that would be near the top of his daily “to-do” list for every remaining day of his presidency.
I kinda hope he does as that will turn a few more from him, and a self pardon is problematic.
Does executive privilege disappear once someone is not president?
I thought it was like spousal privilege. It does not matter if you are divorced…the privilege remains.
If I tell my wife something she cannot divulge that communication ever if I do not want her to (and vice versa for her). That privilege does not end if our marriage ends.
As I said, it’s nebulous. Truman, Nixon, and George W. Bush all invoked executive privilege as former presidents. But Truman was refusing to testify himself and Nixon was refusing to turn over documents and tapes. Bush was the closest to the current situation; he ordered several of his officials not to testify while he was in office and later argued that these orders were still in effect after he left the Presidency. He even went so far as to claim that the orders he gave regarding executive privilege over his administration could not be countermanded by the current President.
But that claim wasn’t tested in court. The Obama administration stated it did not agree with Bush’s argument and said it did have the power to waive an executive privilege order he had made while in office - and it threatened to do so. Rather than take it to court, there were negotiations and the Bush officials agreed to testify. So the question is still unanswered.
Nixon v. Administrator of General Services was tested in court and it arguably supports Trump’s position. Nixon did not want to turn over records to the GSA. He invoked executive privilege. The Supreme Court did state that a President could invoke executive privilege (one of the first cases which acknowledged executive privilege existed) and it said former Presidents could invoke it as well. (Nixon didn’t really win the case. The court said he had to turn over the records due to other issues that were unrelated to executive privilege.)
What I feel is an important point is the decision said that former presidents hold the power of executive privilege in addition to incumbent presidents. It did not rule that a former president’s orders regarding his own administration were superior to the incumbent president’s. In Nixon’s case, President Carter (who was in office at the time) did not directly challenge Nixon’s claim of executive privilege so there was no ruling on which of them would have prevailed.
Personal opinion (IANAL):
It seems there is no agreement on how far privileged communications exist. How far out of the Oval Office with a close advisor is protected?
Few want to see Trump burn more than I do but I can see that a president should be able to speak with his/her closest advisors privately and never have those communications made public.
Beyond those intimate communications I am not convinced any privilege should exist.
Just my $0.02 and the courts don’t listen to me.
Pence will absolutely pardon him because otherwise Trump will take him down with him.
I went with “Other” and am surprised there aren’t more votes denying that this is really a yes or no question.
I’m pretty confident he will use the power of his office to attempt to practically accomplish a pardon, which in the spirit of the question would be a “yes”.
But, literally, I bet not, on the basis that there’s too much controversy over whether such a pardon would hold. So I think he’ll wind up using some other angle. The most obvious is quitting and getting Pence to do it, probably on the basis of some kind of leverage. But maybe he’ll find some other scheme, like holding the country hostage in the coming two months as he wrecks stuff until the rest of us agree in effect not to prosecute him. In fact, there’s no hard and fast reason such a scheme couldn’t fix the legal exposure in state courts, which is a big shortcoming of the official pardon in his mind.
So I officially guess he’ll attempt something that accomplishes a self pardon without technically being a self pardon.
His biggest danger may be state of NY charges and he is not getting a pardon for those. He may take a plea bargain for a short jail stay in a minimum security prison.
Just bumping this thread for any newcomers or to see if anyone has changed their mind.
(I’m assuming that one-time bumps are still permitted now that we’re at Discourse.)
First he will ask Pence if he can be president for a few weeks will Pence pardon Trump? I am not sure Pence will agree to that . Pardon probably helps Pence in 2024 assuming he runs and Trump does not run.
I have to admit I’m puzzled by anyone who thinks that Trump won’t pardon himself and at least his children. As to the legality of it – who cares? The pardon only comes into play if the Biden Administration tries to indict him on anything, and it would be months or years before an indictment would be presented. And then Trump would spend years fighting and delaying it in court, all the while using his need to fight this “political prosecution” as a way to dupe his supporters out of even more donations.
And for the idea that he won’t pardon himself because he would be “admitting that he broke the law” – nah. The man has filed multiple bankruptcies and never admitted to the fact that he’s a terrible businessman. As he made clear when talking about his taxes back in 2016, he feels that using every loophole or questionable interpretation of the law to avoid his responsibilities “makes him smart.”
I do not.
I do.
I see no reason he’ll think it would be admitting his crimes, either. He’ll say some word soup about he’s pardoning himself for crimes he didn’t actually commit to keep the evil libs and Deep State from prosecuting him.
The actual official pardon would be written by someone else, and would likely use the Nixon pardon language:
With the “has committed or may have committed” line, the pardon wouldn’t actually say he actually did anything. He just “may have.”
Not that he will actually have read any of it, nor will any of his devotees supporters.
One of the speculations I’ve seen is that Trump will be “indisposed” for some medical reason, and Pence will be temporarily in charge and issue a pardon to Trump. Not sure if that would hold up.
This is Trump we’re talking about. He will pardon himself. And then he will say he didn’t pardon himself because he didn’t need a pardon. And his followers will believe him.