No jurist would allow a pardon for something that hadnt yet been done.
In one case, the crime has already been committed. In the other, it hasn’t.
While the trial may declare someone guilty, they aren’t only guilty from that point on. They were guilty from the point they committed the crime. It just took the trial to prove it.
I believe this is true but what about a president that promises you a pardon after you do something tomorrow?
For the sake of argument imagine the president put it in writing:
“DrDeth, if you firebomb Whack-a-Mole’s house tomorrow I promise to pardon you. ~President Trump”
Pretend for a moment that firebombing me is not a state crime but a federal crime. Can the president get away with that?
If 34 senators are OK with it, yes.
And almost any U.S. President can break a promise.
The Pardon itself would likely stand, but the President would themselves be guilty of soliciting the firebombing, which is itself a crime. You would get away with it, but they might not. This is another reason why a self-pardon can’t be allowed to stand, because that really would be a license to commit crimes.
he does the pardons this week for xmas which is common for all presidents. If not this week then he waits until after GA votes on the 5th. He might do some this week who are not friends or family and that won’t impact GA voting.
I originally voted no but with all of the craziness the past couple of weeks, I think he’s going to have to.
If he had pardoned himself two weeks ago, he’d probably be having to issue himself a new pardon for all the crimes he’s committed since then. And no point in pardoning himself now when he’s still got two more weeks to go.
His best plan is to wait until about 11:00 am on January 20 before pardoning himself and then take a sixty minute nap.
THIS.
There is no bottom to his lying and shamelessness. All he has to do is say that he’s using the pardon to escape the persecution, and his cult will buy it.
His pardons wont help for Crimes against Humanity at the Hague.
Last chance to vote.
Or apparently you can change your vote if you’ve changed your mind.
I chose “Other” because, in two days, he won’t be president anymore so he can’t even attempt it.
Interesting twist I learned about today: folks are talking about the possibility of Trump issuing secret pardons on his way out the door. Not that there’s anything in the law that specifically authorizes secret pardons. But there’s also nothing in the law that requires pardons to be made public.
So, as I understand, there might be pardons extended that we don’t learn about until some time after Trump has left office. He could pardon himself and his family for basically everything they might get charged with, and we’d never notice until DoJ got around to pressing charges (if ever).
Either way, this will be interesting. I’m sure Trump is trying to run the legal-defense version of the Apollo 13 mission right now. It will probably shake out in a fiery disaster more like Apollo 1, but I look forward to seeing the obscure and novel points of law that come out of this.
I do think that Trump will pardon himself. But just like he has never declared that Biden has won the election, Trump will never admit that he broke any laws.
It would be hilarious if he tried this and the Justice Department then denied that the pardons were real.
My speculation at this point is that Trump has issued a self-pardon and a group of pardons to his family and close advisors. But he has ordered the Justice Department not to release the information.
In a couple of days, the Justice Department will no longer be answering to Trump and there will be a belated public statement that the pardons were issued.
I suspect that you are right on the money.
Constitutionally speaking, he doesn’t need to inform the Justice Department about the pardons. All he needs is a reliable witness to the pardons (say, a sympathetic notary public) who can confirm their authenticity and time of issuance, if/when they are revealed to the public.
I’m going to change my vote to “yes” - I’ll bet he pardons himself for any charges stemming from the January 6 insurrection - not because he thinks he did anything wrong, but because he’s afraid it will be “manipulated” against him.
The word this morning that the big pardon dump doesn’t include him or his family. My personal belief is that the winning argument against was the loss of 5th Amendment protections AND (more importantly) the possible implications for civil trials related to the seditious riots.