I’ve been off-board while this thread got really long and apparently the mood has switched back and forth several times, and maybe even you regret what you’ve said. Nevertheless if you can believe that these words weren’t read as being attacking and degrading, you’ll never understand the arguments being made.
As short as possible: we’ve not been attacking individuals, but elucidating the religious climate of the country, which from the beginning, made Christianity an all-important factor of government, society, and even commerce and diminished the reality of everyone who was not Christian. Just as fish don’t see water, Christians take this fact as so beyond dispute that they cannot accept that air exists.
Generalities may be odious but they are sometimes useful. With luck, nitpicking their lack of unanimity will be secondary to an understanding of why they need to be made.
I never say anything about God to strangers but do sometimes cause a rankle with another ending.
What I tend to say as a somewhat habitual send-off is “Take care now.” Some people have personally taken this as ‘I suspect you have some irregular conditions/circumstances so am tentatively offering a smidge of support.’ I see their perspective but always only after I’ve said it.
In fact, it means I approve of the person’s actions at that particular moment. In conversation, I never mean more than that but still laugh inside.
This doesn’t seem to be at issue, contrary to some misunderstanding here. People understand that “have a blessed day” means “may God give you some blessings today.” That’s what they mean to say, and they know it. Or, at least, I’m comfortable stipulating such. That’s not really the problem.
The problem is when the listener reads other meanings into it – i.e. “You should convert to Christianity” or “I don’t have to care about your religious sensitivities” or “we’re the majority and you aren’t.” Yes, I’m summarizing posts here, it’s necessary because the beliefs around this are varied and vague.
All I can really say is, look at the “happy holidays” debate. People are certain that if you say “happy holidays” your intent is to erase Jesus. Look at people who get upset about Muslim cab drivers throwing down prayer rugs and praying at the airport… they complain that these folks are “throwing Islam in their faces.” In some cases holding the airport to be a quasi-sacred space after 9/11, a place where Muslims should recognize their cultural burden of guilt and avoid doing anything that might make others uncomfortable.
It’s understandable to look at the current political moment and see every mild expression of Christian identity as a threat. “Those people” are everywhere now, or so it can appear due to media trickery. But I think it’s mistaken to assume that “have a blessed day” is anything but them hoping you have a good day, referencing God because simply they believe that’s where blessings come from.
We live in times where people are, sadly, more comfortable than ever wishing you ill, or actually doing you violence, simply because you’re of a different creed. Getting angry when someone literally, explicitly, says “I hope God gives you good things” seems like a serious misuse of one’s anger budget, as well as a likely misreading of the situation.
Here’s a weird one. Yesterday we got an xmas card from one of our best friends. We are pretty sure she is atheist, and we KNOW she knows WE are. The card had angels and the word “Blessings” on the front! People are weird!
I think you are missing that there just possibly might be cases where the problem is that the speaker actually is asserting that their Christian religion is normative.
Well, sometimes that is the point. Not to prevent you from worshipping Jesus, but to prevent you from assuming that i worship Jesus.
As noted upthread I’m about as atheist as they come. I try to attend Handel’s Messiah every Christmas season. I even sing along if the performance has audience participation.
The music is beautiful even if it is a monument to the human folly and waste that is organized religion.
As a non-Christian living in America, secularized cultural Christianity is normative. Actual religious Christianity, or any other faith, is outside the norm. But unquestionably, the default in the United States has the trappings of Christianity with very little of the substance.
I find that most Atheists who were raised Christian have a bit of “fish in water” going on where they’re hyper-aware of actual expressions of true religiosity (because that’s outside the US norm) but they’re pretty much blind to secularized ways that the assumptions of Christianity permeate the culture. And again, that’s fine. It’s part of what makes American culture American.
Different religions (and cultural expressions of those religions) are normative in different places, and, hot take, that’s fine.
The word “normative” has two flavors. One is descriptive, which is the way you are using it, to describe what is, on average, normal, or in other words the majority view.
The other is prescriptive, which is to prescribe what ought to be normal, and what should be considered outside the normal.
I’m not sure which sense @puzzlegal was using, but I suspect from context that it was the latter. And in that sense I agree with them. Even innocuous expressions can be used to push a point of view, as well as to express one. How often that happens is a question; that it happens is not.
There might be, but how could anyone know that? At least with enough certainty to justify getting angry about it? I don’t discount the possibility, but I would suggest that in life, there are things that are too uncertain to justify forming an emotional response about. Maybe the person who said “have a nice day” really meant “fuck you". Sometimes it sounds like that. I have no way to be certain of it, but unless they’re pulling a weapon on me, I don’t think it makes sense to care.
My doubt here continues to be the level of certainty have that the other party actually meant “Jesus is my lord and yours too” or whatever is being supposed. I don’t see enough substance in “have a blessed day” to get there, I’m sorry.
So you’re engaging in a little subtextual trolling of a stranger to make an indirect point. I’m not judging that, but I’d suggest it illustrates that we all do it from time to time, and there’s nothing to be gained from brooding over what the person really meant, until it becomes overt or physical.
The world of subtext is the world of subtext. The unknowability is the point. If you’re brooding about it, they’ve won.
It’s not trolling. It’s a straightforward way to indicate that either I’m not Christian or i don’t know that you are Christian, and don’t want to assume that about you.
I doubt that people leave the Christmas Eve service of their church wishing each other “happy holidays”. But it’s polite for retail clerks to not assume their customer is Christian.
They’ve already won. They won before America existed. They’ve been on top every minute since. The rest of us live at their sufferance in their world.
That’s why they are becoming so extreme about religion. They fear that their automatic supremacy is being endangered by the loss of church attendance and rise of other forms of spirituality. The more our refusal to cooperate extends, the more extreme their words and actions.
Anyone with an ounce of history can recognize the parallels to the South before the Civil War. Parallels are not exact equivalents, to stomp on that nit before it rears its ugly head, but Christian nationalism and white supremacy are almost a circle on a Venn diagram.
No mind reading is necessary. Religion’s saturation of America’s air may be as invisible to most as CO2 but, similarly, its increasing effects are visible to all except those who remain willfully blind and shout hoax at every warning.
This is literally a mind-reading wall of text. Directionally I agree with you in broad strokes, to an extent. But the things you’re supposing are going through someone’s mind when they say “have a blessed day”… I don’t even know where to start with that.
There is a lot of distress and conflict in the country today and I don’t think anyone is well served by projecting it onto every individual and every interaction. Sincerely and non-ironically, I am concerned about some of you.
Sincerely and unironically, I am far more concerned about some of you, because you are so numerous and so willing to use power. The only reading I’m doing is called history and news.
You can be blessed even if you are the president of the American Atheist association- assuming there is one. Blessed by circumstances, life, or just fortune. God or gods do not need to have anything whatsoever to do with it.
Sure, but how would you tell? I mean it is pretty obvious now that such is not always and i claim not usually the case. Mind you if they are wearing a MAGA hat, you are of course allowed to be annoyed by anything they say, or just the fact they are breathing the same air.
Now, if a MAGA wished me “make America great Again!” I’d assume political meaning and even some menace there.
Wearing a MAGA hat would be about the only way to make the assumption pretty solid.
Even Christians wish one other “Happy Holidays”, because of course there are other holidays during this season- Hannukah , New years, and etc.
I agree. Look I have seen rants here on the SDMB about “Have a nice day!” (“How dare they order me to….”) and “Do you want fries with that?” etc etc. Honestly, there are real reasons to get your blood pressure up and “Have a blesses day” or “Have a Nice day” are not real or good reasons.
As The Sergeant said “Lighten up, Francis.”. Words to live by.
Not a single person has claimed it is always the case. Many people have claimed that they have seen it be the case. My guess is that they can tell by context. Facial expression, tone of voice, body language, etc.
You said that sometimes “have a nice day” sounds like “fuck you” . I believe that it occasionally is “fuck you”. Further, i believe i can tell when that’s the case. That particular usage is rare, in my experience. Aggressive wishes of blessings are also rare in my experience. (Like, i don’t think it’s happened to me.) But just like i can tell when “have a nice day” means “fuck you”, i believe other posters when they describe their experience with being wished blessings.
