Sure seems that way to me. Most of the people I have met or known that were extremely wealthy were crooked as a dog’s hind leg.
I realize that there are some successful people out there who made good with plain hard work. But I am willing to bet that those who have made millions and millions have done something if not a lot of things crooked to further their wealth. Money buys many things, not the least of which, is immunity.
What me jealous of other people’s money? Probably so. 
Well, that’s just the problem. If we point to somone and say, “that person is rich solely due to hard work,” it’s easy to say, “But how do you know? After all, money buys immunity . . .”
I guess we’d need to define “crooked.” Sam Walton didn’t break any laws (that we know of). He worked hard, gave the people what they wanted, and made a fortune. But because he could provide goods in bulk and at low prices, he was repeatedly accused of manipulating prices and maliciously undercutting small businesses.
Crooked?
-andros-
Many entertainers become wealthy through a combination of talent and luck. I’m not sure I would label them crooked, although I can see that some of them may have been corrupted by their wealth after they obtained it.
It’s simple - invent something people really like, but don’t need. I doubt the inventor of wite-out crushed hapless potential competitors.
V.
More often than not, it’s the person who markets a new invention who strikes it rich, not the inventor him/herself.
Oh, and luck has a huge-ass amount to do with it, too.
Absolutely true tracer. I am sure that Mike Nesmith’s mother invented liquid paper from pure necessity. She may have made plenty from it, but I bet that those that marketed it made more money than she did.
I doubt it’s absolutely necessary to be crooked in order to become wealthy. But I don’t doubt it helps.
**
And most of the poor people I’ve known have been criminals. <whew> Now that we’ve got another stereotype out of the way.
**
If you’re going to paint such a wide brushstroke over the wealthy you could at least give us some examples.
Marc
You do have to be at least dishonest to rise through the ranks in a large corporation. Take a long haed look at any successful manager you’ve ever worked for or known.
I’m not talking about murder and larceny, but about lying a little, cheating a little, omitting facts, stretching truths, etc.
This kind of conduct is so accepted that if you don’t do it, you’ll get stepped on. True honesty has no place in the business world,
Peace,
mangeorge
I know a number of very wealthy people, including two billionaires. Every one I would characterize as ambitious, hard-working and determined. Not one would I characterize as crooked.
This notion that you have to be evil to be successful is just plain silly and rooted in jealousy. People become successful because they satisfy the needs of a lot of people and are rewarded accordingly. Success represents compensation for good that you’ve done for other people.
In short? NO. Many people can become wealthy through bein in the right place at te right time. Sure some may employ questionable business practices at some time or another. But why? Because they can. I’m pretty sure many would still be wealthy if they never lied. That doesn’t mean there aren’t a fair number of crooked lying rich bastards out there. But, I think they are crooked and lying because they’re rich, not the other way around.
Sorry. I posted that last post too quick. I should have said they lie because they are greedy, not because they are rich. My bad.
I’ll tell you one thing for sure. You could get very rich on this thread by selling Rose Colored Glasses.
“compensation for good that you’ve done for other people”.
Indeed!
Peace,
mangeorge
mangeorge wrote
It’s simple economics. Nobody gives money away. People give money in exchange for products or services that make their lives better. People receive money because they deliver products or services that make other peoples lives better.
More Money Received = More Satisfaction Delivered.
Now, of course there are plenty of rich evil people. There are plenty of rich people who don’t deserve their wealth. There are exceptions to everything. But that doesn’t change the majority case that people become wealthy by delivering value to other people.
The first seven words of the OP are “It sure seems that way to me.” In other words it is my opinion that many people who are rich have had to do something underhanded along the path to getting rich. My basis for this statement is based on my right to have that opinion and people that I have met, read about or dealt with in the past.
Some examples I might give (if I could prove it of course) who IMHO might be millioniares and have had to do some underhanded things to get where they are to day are Don King, Donald Trump, my former millionaire manager ( see my homepage), president of the Visa credit card company (16.99%) and whoever may be in charge of the Sears credit card company (21%).
I think the individual who makes millions honestly without having to get down on one knee and wallow with unsavory entities and who doesn’t get any shit on him/her is a rare bird indeed.
I never said that they weren’t out there.
billiehunt:
I don’t remember anywhere in the OP that I intimated that a crooked person is evil. Evil is your word. A politician taking a bribe for example, isn’t evil he or she is just plain crooked.
I think the obstacles that stand in the way of making an honest million are by definition crooked themselves. One hand washes the other in this world and it’s my humble opinion that you would have to be nothing less than naive to think differently.
aha, how do you define ‘crooked’?
Do you mean people who cheat other people? Nobody does business in isolation. Sooner or later, people who screw other people reap what they sow. This is especially true of the very rich, who didn’t just get one lucky strike, but did successful business again and again over the course of years, typically with the same customers, suppliers and competitors.
Do you mean people who treat their competitors harshly? Certainly there’s a degree of harshness that’s wrong, but in business, getting ahead of your competitor is key to your delivering value to your customers.
Do you mean (per your example) people who charge what you consider an unfair price for a service they provide you? If your credit card rate is too high, go to another service. Or improve your credit rating. The credit card companies compete; they are not in cahoots to artifically keep your rate high. If one of them could make a good business of offering you a lower rate, they would.
Also: People in posititions of real money and real power are sometimes faced with decisions in which either choice will harm someone in some way. That’s the nature of things. In these cases, it’s easy to look back at the person and say, “See how person X was harmed,” without taking into consideration the alternatives involved.
Billehunt said:
Uhh… Isn’t the Federal Gov’t of the US looking into taking Visa/Mastercard to court for just that?
I tried to get a low-rate credit card. But everybodyis high!!
I think you are high.
How about some cites? Here are a few thought starters:
John D. Rockefeller, Jay Gould, Leland Stanford, P. D. Armour, Henry Flagler, Claus Spreckels, Andrew Carnegie, Marshall Field, J. Pierpoint Morgan and mebbe names like Astor or Vanderbilt.
Just thought starters. Provided by Thomas G. Shearman from his 1889 article “The Owners of the United States.”