My former “good” vehicle which is now used as a spare vehicle/ hauler of stuff too big for the other 2 to handle is an all-wheel-drive '91 Grand Caravan. It gets SUV-like gas mileage of 14-17 city and 19-22 highway. IMHO, all-wheel drive in a vehicle jacked no higher off the ground than a minivan is more than enough for the winters we’ve been having foir the past 10-15 years here in the Omaha area.
Actually we only had enough snow to cause me to back my RWD Ranger downhill and try another approach to its destination once last year.
My current newest vehicle is a short-wheelbase minivan that was unsuccessfully pitched as a “crossover SUV”, a 2002 Pontiac Aztek that gets 19-22 mpg in the city and 25-29mpg highway. It is FWD and climbed every hill the AWD Grand Caravan did last winter. In that we get more ice than snow here anymore, the higher ground clearance of a “real SUV” is actually a hazard in that you get more crosswind-lift under those things and lift is something you don’t want on ice.
The 4-cylinder RWD 1997 Ranger with aluminum bedtopper gets lousy mileage with the A/C on–18-21-- and up to 26 with it off. I commute to my regular job in it and use it for my bi-weekly magazine delivery route, as well.
An SUV that can carry as much as the Ranger would be an Explorer or Grand Cherokee and both would have too high liftover height for loading/unloading freight as well as cost much more to buy and run than the Ranger. “Cute utes” need not apply for a 140-stop route delivering 76 50-book bundles of 80-page newsprint books. The only SUV’s up to the job would have to be at least Explorer-sized. Of course, I did make a run with the Aztek and it performed beautifully, but it’s really a controversially-styled short van; a “UV” not an SUV.
I need utility. I need a large-enough FWD vehicle to sub for my Ranger in really bad weather, but I don’t need ground clearance or off-road capability, so I don’t need a “real SUV”.
I drive a 2000 Ford F-250 with a 7.3 liter powerstroke diesel engine. When I bought it, I was working with an agricultural company that involved hauling stuff (mainly farm tractors) hundreds of miles; it was a necessity then. I’m not involved in that project anymore, but I still use the 4WD frequently - I go offroad to get to fishing spots, trailheads, and remote camping areas fairly regularly. We also have pretty harsh winters, and I often have to drive for work regardless of the weather. In January, the truck got me over Donner Pass (about 7800 feet) the day after it got hit with four feet of snow.
I don’t use it to haul much anymore. I’ll still fill up the bed occasionally, but I certainly don’t need that big an engine. I love the utility of being able to go wherever I want to go, though, and it’s better on fuel (being diesel) than the F-150 I used to drive for work. I can’t see myself getting rid of it any time soon.
I am of the opinion that no one ‘needs’ a SUV, for that matter no one needs a car. Perhaps they need it to perserve their current lifestyle, but it is not on the order of air or water.
That said, I think I am a good canidate for a want of a SUV, high snowfall, poor plowing, and non-paved roads. To be honest, my SUV has not enabled me to go anywhere my car did before. Well I use to just ram my car up my driveway, and where it stopped, I would walk the rest, the SUV just goes right up everytime. It was not really a big deal however. What the SUV gives me is the greater ability to extract myself from a bad situation unassisted, which is why I got one.
So I don’t think I need one, but it does give me some sense of security. Also BTW I get better MPG’s then with my car.
That was going to be my question. SUV appears to be a very loose definition even within automotive groups. To me, it implies a utility vehicle that has a big performance engine in it.
It is a dangerous combination to put a sporty motor in a vehicle with a high center of gravity. I don’t own one and would not for that reason. People who haul stuff or tow boats need a heavy vehicle for stability and a motor with low end torque. Using a large vehicle as a sports car is just a bad idea. That’s what sports cars are for.
If I had the garage space and the money I would get something with a Cummings turbo-diesel in it. As it is now, I have to borrow a vehicle or tow very light loads with my Saturn econobox.
I don’t know what companies offer what, but when I bought out my Suzuki lease a few days ago, I purchased a second “new car” warrantee. (No repairs since I first leased it in 2001, so I’m keeping it, but I don’t want to risk major repairs inthe next few years, so I’m happy to pay the extra for a good warrantee.)
Not necessarily. My ’93 Pathfinder with a V6 is barely enough to do what it needs to. The newer 6s’ have nearly twice the HP and torque. I consider my car somewhat dangerous because it is underpowered. It does have 190,000 miles on it, so that’s part of it.
Passing, in the mountains is a chore. If I even dare to try. My Wifes Grand Jeep with the V8 has no problems.
If I don’t need to go faster than say 30mph, low range takes care of that. Say when I’m pulling another car out, or backing my trailer up the drive. Or off-road. Or deep, deep snow.
I’m looking at a Trailblazer for my next vehicle (and a few others). It’s about the right size for the things I need to do, and should get me to work and back.
My Mom has spinal stenosis. My MIL has had knee replacement. I’ve got a bad back and my knees are going. The higher vehicle is much easier to get in and out of. That’s just a bonus of our SUV’s.
It continues to stun me that there are those that would tell a stranger what they need.
I had the same problem with a '95 4Runner that I used to use for work (although I think that had a straight six). It was ok on flat ground or in low gear off-road, but it didn’t have a lot of oomph on the highway. To add to the problem, I generally had a couple of hundred pounds of tools in the back and a couple of hundred pounds of driver in the front; for a few years, I never had to worry about speeding tickets.
My mom has a '99 (I think) 4Runner that has a much more powerful V6. No problems with that one at all.
I’m with lieu, **Stranger **and **Finagle **on the Subie Outback. While not an “SUV” per se, it allows plenty of Sport and Utility for those of us who live in places like Vermont or Colorado. I live at 10,000 feet near Telluride, and the Subie can handle everything, especially with snow tires. Sometimes I’ll pull into the post office (no home delivery here) and it’ll just be a row of Outbacks. I’ve gotten 25-30 mpg consistently for 7 years. Plus there’s the nice protective layer of gravel installed on the floormats. It’s nice to have a car you can use (recycling haulage, dog transport, camping trips, enough clearance to do some minor passes & Moab “roads”).
My husband is a contractor, dirt biker, snowmobiler, etc. and really does use the crap out of his F150, even though he hates to drive it.
Even where we live, most days we don’t have to use the full capabilities of the vehicles, and I’d get a Civic too if it weren’t for the fact that probably the most environmentally friendly thing you can do is drive your cars until they die (=less overall junk in the life, as it were.)
Maybe ‘Stunned’ isn’t the right word. Nah. I’ll continue to be stunned.
Perhaps that’s the problem. I should stop being ‘stunned’ and become darn right pissed off at those folks that think they know what is best for me. I used the word stunned because It’s hard to believe that a complete stranger would have the balls to tell me what I need.
Alpine -
So THERE YOU ARE! Look at my user name. It’s Alpine backwards. Alpine was my first choice as a user name. It’s the name of a dearly loved deceased pet. A Labrador Retriever. Well, at least you live in the mountains too.
We considered a Subaru for about 10 minutes. The lack of ground clearance and no low range made it a no go though. And it’s not big enough for towing.
We live at 11,200 above Alma. The Subaru is real popular for folks in Breckenridge. Won’t cut it for me though. We had 28” of snow on the 10th of October.
Heh. So true about the Outback. I don’t think I had ever seen one until we moved to Colorado in 1994 (but they may have been pretty new). Then, I saw the everywhere. The clearance may not have been what I would have liked, but the all-wheel drive sure looked like it helped around town during the winter.
And just think, after reading the http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340640]Please explain your Doper name thread, I was thinking that it’s a boring name. I was going to use mtgrrl (my husband insists it’s “meeting girl” but it’s “mountain girl”) but didn’t want to have the gender thing out there on a message board at the time.
Oh well. Sorry about that! And I don’t even post much (as is evident by the postcount for the last 5 years).
In re Subaru - I’m lucky in that if there’s too much snow for it, I can just work at home for the day. It has been able to push through at least 24" of the fluffy stuff, but that gets exciting when the snow coming over the hood means you can’t see anything and the road isn’t very wide… I regularly take it on 4WD roads since I know where there’s enough clearance underneath to put a rock.
You’ve really had over 2 feet already? How much is still on the ground up there? Our snowline is definitely up in the 11-12K range, so it’s melted out around the house.
EjsGirl - the AWD is great, but if you don’t put snow tires on you might as well leave it at home.
Not to worry about the name. Not at all. Alpine was a great dog. It’s kinda cool that you’re a Coloradoan too. Telluride at that.
I can usually push through 2’ in my Pathfinder. Depends on how wet it is. I’ve lived here (at elevation) for 13 years.
The first time I missed work because of snow was on April 19th 1995. That’s the day of the Oklahoma City bombing. We got a good 2-3 feet of snow that night. My girlfriends (now Wife) car was at the bottom of the driveway. I had to get it moved so the county could plow. I had, at the time an ’84 CJ7 with 35” mud and snows on them. When I went down the driveway to retrieve the car, the snow pushed up over the hood of the Jeep. That’s when I decided that we might not get into work that day.
The second time we did not go into work was just this month. 28” of wet heavy snow on the 10th. It was Columbus day, a holiday for us Government workers. I probably could have got in, but it really wasn’t worth it. I’ve stuck 4x4s lots of times. It’s a true pain in the ass to get them unstuck.
So far, so good. Couldn’t do it with out my plow truck and our SUV’s though.
We still have snow on the ground. It’s piled up to about 3 feet where I plowed it (it melted a bunch). It’s the first snow to come. And I’m sure it will be the last to go in June.
While there is no official SUV catagory that I know if, the 2005 Outback is clasified as a light truck. This is the 1st year that it made this catagory, and I would put it into the SUV catagory.
It sure as hell doesn’t qualify as a truck. It’s a medium sized car. Or small station wagon at best.
My first car, back in 1976 was a 1962 Olds 98. I could put my 10 speed bike in the trunk.
Or my 1976 Yamaha DT250C If I took the front wheel and handle bars off. Did it. Been there.
Big cars are not new. They are just getting better.
Classify SUVs as trucks? Fine. I don’t care. I will continue to buy what I need.
And if my new SUV is hamstrung by requirements that it can’t meet, I’ll just get something bigger/different class. The people that are afraid of full sized vehicles are pretty much out of luck.
Can I come play at your house?
I love the snow. I have relatives in Estes Park and don’t get out there nearly as much as I’d like to. Colorado is beautiful.
I have a Chevy Trailblazer, and while I’m the first to admit I don’t need it, I do get a lot of use out of it. I end up hauling stuff around, and when we do get snow (those rare times here in the Mid-Atlantic), I do need to get out and around, so it’s handy.
We travel a bit and camp, so the big back end is nice.
My husband has a pick-up truck and we use that for all it’s worth, too.
I currently own one vehicle, a ‘96 Jeep Grand Cherokee. While I no longer “need” it, I did when I got it.
My requirements;
It had to fit me and my family (me, my wife, and two kids) comfortably.
It had to fit all the stuff you need for two toddlers when you go away for the day.
As I had to use it for a delivery vehicle for my company, it had to fit three 42’ plasma screens, eight 1000’ reels of cable, and assorted cable connectors* in an enclosed space.
It had to have the ground clearence to get around the often bad roads in the Mojave.
As I commuted 137 miles a day, it had to be reliable.
I don’t have any particular desire to own a SUV and if I could trade it straight across for a Honda Civic hatchback, I would. But for what I needed at the time, there was no other choice.
Yeah, Subaru actually pissed off a lot of their clientele when they did that. The kind of people who buy Subarus are the kind of people who are proud that they’re not driving big honking vehicles. So for Subaru to reclassify the Outback to evade some regulatory something or other was considered exceedingly lame.
(Subaru has also been screwing up the Outback by putting increasingly powerful engines in it which is not bad in itself, except that the gas mileage which was once in the high 20’s is now in the very low 20’s. So they may have really shot themselves in the foot with their wannabee-SUV approach.)
We have a Toyota RAV 4 as our “family car”…it is a small SUV, but we really use it as a sedan. It has many advantages, such as higher seating and flexible seating; even though it is four wheel drive, we seldom go off road. Originally it was bought because my wife was driving on unimproved country road (think horrible). But now it is the urban zippy car…except for excursions into rural Mexico.
My other vehicle is a Toyota Tundra. I use the cargo capacity every week, and all of my friends depend on me having a pickup…
