I have to admit, it’s certainly the case with me. I’m not the slightest bit sexually attracted to men. It takes all kinds.
Gore Vidal, who I’ve been reading the hell out of lately, wrote a few very good pieces on this subject. Next time you’re in your local bookstore wander over and pull his “Essays” off the shelf. You’ll thank me later.
Of course bisexuals exist, but we should all be clear on what the term actually means. A bisexual is someone who prefers both genders equally. Not just “jumps the fence”. It’s perfectly possible to prefer both men and women, but one over the other. With that in mind, I wouldn’t be surprised if true bisexuals were rare.
On a related note, I doubt that “fluid” sexuality actually exists. See, that implies that you can change your place on the Kinnsey scale (am I the only one here who’s heard of this?) at will, which implies that sexuality is a matter of choice, which it ISN’T, and anyone with a quarter of a brain knows this. What fluid sexuality sounds like, to me, is a break from the homo-hetero-bi trichotomy. Just because you don’t know your exact place doesn’t mean you don’t have one. (It’s only simple for the rock-solid zeroes and sixes, believe me.)
Ah, another hormo-sexual heard from
Is it all hard-wired, then? Can no one learn from experience? And what about time? Can no one change over time? ROCKS change over time.
& people are mostly water.
Precisely. Just as all heterosexual men are not sexually attracted to all women, all heterosexual women are not attracted to all men, all gay men are not sexually attracted to all men, and all lesbians are not sexually attracted to all women.
Hell, I’ve had great sex with some men who identify as gay rather than bisexual - and not during their “not yet admitting to being gay” stage either.
Whether I am having sex primarily with men or with women at any given point in my life isn’t something about which I make a conscious decision in advance - it just depends on which particular people in my life I happen to be sexuality attracted to at that time for reasons other than their gender. And if that isn’t bisexuality, then I’m not sure what is.
::adding to the applause::
From Kinsey’s book Sexual Behavior in the Human Male
This is going to turn into a Great Debate, I can just feel it.
Sexual “fluidity” doesn’t necessarily denote a choice in changing their preference, it simply denotes a change in itself (yes, possibly by choice [be it conscious or subconscious] but equally possibly by experiencial and/or environmental influence over time or even possibly by genetics [perhaps it is predetermined genetically that someone will be born straight and later become gay or vice versa], or perhaps even a combination of one or more of the above at different times in ones life, no one knows absolutely for certain).
I went to an all-boys boarding school where homosexuality was everywhere - even amongst guys who nowadays are ‘100% straight’… or so they think. The absence of female companionship let people be more open to experiences that they would otherwise be shocked to even consider… Some of these guys grew up to be evil rugby monsters who’ll hurl abuse at anyone that doesn’t hold the same current attitudes as them.
But then, I hurl abuse at people that listen to Abba, even though I used to listen to Abba myself…
There is this happy straight couple and, one day, he (or she, but let’s stick to he) decides he wants a female lover on the side. Not because he is bored with his wife, just because his mistress has things to offer his wife doesn’t.
Well, ask anyone in the general public about this guy and the replies will be he is easily bored, unfaitful, hurts his girlfriend, is opportunistic etc.
Now imagine the same happy couple. One day he decides he is bi and finds a male lover besides his wife.
Does that situation differ in any way from the first?
bisexuality/monosexuality and polyamory/monoamory are two totally separate dichotomies. It doesn’t help to contrast them.
I wrote ‘contrast’ when I meant ‘conflate’. This is because I am a doof.
On a scale from 100%hetero on the left to 100%homo on the right, I would currently place myself at somewhere around 75/25. But I’ve wandered all over the damn scale (well, OK, I’ve never gotten over maybe 85% either direction) in the course of nearly two decades of sexual activity. I rarely self-identify as ‘bisexual’ because it just flat doesn’t matter that much to me. I am who I am & I love who I love & I lust who I lust and it matters not one whit what y’all wanna call it. On the other hand, if bisexuals don’t exist, then I’m just not sure where else you’d find to fit me (or maybe I’ll just disappear in a flash of light, leaving only a trace aroma behind).
Do I consciously decide to change my orientation? No. Factors that I’ve realized affect my temporary preferences include availability/opportunity of partners, exposure to extremely attractive individuals, and cultural context (i.e., I was much more homo-oriented when my primary peer group was mostly gay - then again, that may have to do with opportunity & availability of partners ;)). I’m sure there are other factors that I’m not aware of.
IMO, there are a very small percentage of people that are 100% (or close enough) on either end and almost everyone else is in between somewhere. And even that doesn’t cover it, because people (e.g., asexuals) fall off of the scale. There’s probably only a tiny percentage that are exactly 50/50, but I think that definition of ‘bisexual’ is asinine, so I don’t see that it really matters. I don’t try to use the Kinsey scale because I don’t care much for trying to cram the huge range of human sexual behaviours and desires into five (or seven) labels. While it may be handy for conducting surveys, it’s a piss-poor way of understanding people.
Because I got so much grief about being bi from the gay crowd when I was a college kid, I get sincerely ticked off by the “it’s just a phase” and “you just won’t admit you’re gay” crowds. On the other hand, I’ve also seen my gay friends get hurt by people that decided they were more interested in a hetero r’ship, so I can respect and understand the hesitation that lots of gays feel about getting deeply involved with bisexuals. Particularly now that ‘bi’ is trendy. (Hey, Hama, when did it become cool to be bi? I musta been hiding under my rock when that happened. Just alluva sudden one day I realized that the personal ads were full of ‘bi-curious couples’. ::shudder:: )
Actually, Tansu, I don’t think botanica is really conflating them. I think the point is that many people would be more sympathetic in the second case, because:
(1) The “thing he’s not getting” from his wife is not something she could ever give him under any circumstances,
(2) They might assume he’d been closeted before, denied himself, tried to live a heterosexual lifestyle but just couldn’t keep the facade any more, and
(3) “Cabaret” notwithstanding, our culture doesn’t often confront the idea of a man and woman competing for the same man - whereas the competition among women for men underlies so much, and forms such a strong influence on women’s insecurities.
As for me, as I’ve gotten older I’ve become much more flexible in my concept of sexuality. Not as far as my own activities are concerned, but a greater understanding that people can be attracted “against type.” That said, I think I’ll really believe in bisexuals when I start to see lots of “bi man seeking woman” ads in the personals :).
(fyi, “bi” men only ever seem to try to find men, not women. It’s like they’re only half-bi, if that makes any sense at all…)
Woohoo! I’d like to second this motion and not just 'cos I like to discuss my flavor.
Personally, I’m rather bored with the misunderstandings of bisexuality. I’m currently engaged to a guy, which has led into a lot of talk about me nixing my bisexuality. Um, am I gonna have to cut off an arm and a leg, too? This makes about as much sense as saying that after marriage a husband and wife are only attracted to each other, and all their other “attraction sensors” have been permanently flipped to “off.” I certainly didn’t sign up for that. Because none of my current group of friends have known me when I was with my girlfriend, the “it was just a phase” thing passes into conversation quite easily. They’ve never known me to date someone Asian or a redhead, but they don’t assume that’s off the spectrum. Arrrgh!
After all of that ranting above, it sure was sweet to find someone who had something nice to say about bisexuals.
No - unless he had a prior agreement, he’d still be a cheating jerk. But his bisexuality has nothing to do with his fidelity or lack of - it has to do with who he’s attracted to.
Bisexuals are just as capable of monogamy as anyone else and using “I’m bisexual” as an excuse for cheating is just as lame as using, “My wife doesn’t understand me” or “I’m bored”.
Dr. Pinky - While you’re not the first person who’s accused me of homosexuality, let me assure you that I’m firmly entrenched in the OPPOSITE end. Note that I said “rock-solid zeroes and sixes”. Bit of advice: When you’re only 50% sure, don’t guess.
dublos - You’ve made some very good points. Again, bisexuality means preferring both sexes equally, but you’re right, there is a pretty wide spectrum (although, living in Hawaii, I unfortunately don’t get to see much of it). The problem is that we just don’t have a word for preferring one sex over the other, but not completely. (This, IMHO, is ridiculous…there are a gazillion words for just about every sexual act and preference imaginable, and we don’t know what to call a Kinnsey 2 or 4?)
Everyone else - It’s been pretty well-established that a person’s sexuality is largely determined by birth. Anyone with any sense knows that neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is a choice; why wouldn’t it be the same for in between?
It’s certainly possible to deviate from one’s normal preference in certain situations; prison is a common example. (Hey, when you’re horny, you’re horny.) But that’s a lot different than actually changing one’s preference. Everything that I’ve seen and heard points to sexuality being largely hard-wired, and if there’s evidence to the contrary, I’d like to see it.
I’m not trying to tick anyone off here (although it seems to happen all the time anyway), I’m just going by what I know.