You should be braking before the curve shouldn’t you? Then you power through the curve. If you brake into a turn and change gears in the middle of the turn you end up destabilising the car which is the effect I get from driving an automatic, unwanted gear changes in the middle of a corner.
“Gears to go, brakes to slow” is the modern mantra. Engine braking dates from when brakes were inefficient and faded under heavy pressure. It’s very old-fashioned, except in special situations like ice and snow.
I agree almost totally:
Engine braking because you have to does belong safely back in the 1950s, but:
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I crest a hill or round a curve and find a red light. There’s nobody in front of me, and I don’t know how long the light has been red for. As I near the stop line, and although I have been using the brakes, I whack 'er into second, and often I find I’m ready to take off like a macho fuckhead / hypermile away smoothly when the light flips green.
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It might come into play a little if I’m coming up to a curve anyway.
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Sometimes, I give in to the fun.
Ah, okay. I see my car as sort of a rolling music machine that takes me places. 
I’m far more likely to buy things to make the stereo work better with my iPod and stuff than I am to do anything that involves a “driving experience” enhancement. Driving is my time to go as fast as I can under the conditions and sing really loud to my music where no one can hear me or make fun of me. So, I don’t want to pay attention to the driving part of it, more than I have to.
Yep. See, I think - as long as you don’t compromise safety - that’s a pretty valid point of view too. And if I’m left alone with my weird manual fetish, I’m happy as a pig in shit. 
In the U.K. they’ve never gone away.
How can you ever enjoy driving like that?
Still I suppose its safer even if it is a lot slower.
Yes. There’s more than one way to do this, depending on the tightness of the turn and the type of vehicle you are driving and your skill level, but the technique I was describing was more what’s called “trail braking.” The idea for trail braking is to keep the weight on the front of the car to help tighten the line by minimizing understeer.
A diagram would be best. See page 13 of this PDF to see what I was describing.
Yes, the normal way of doing it is braking before the curve, holding speed or gently accelerating into the apex, and then and exiting full throttle out of the apex. I was hoping that my explanation would be sufficiently general to cover both trailbraking and the standard method (I considered braking into the curve to mean the same as braking before the curve), but that should clarify what I mean.
I’ve owned manuals and autos both here in the US and in New Zealand and I’m comfortable with both.
I bought a new manual Hyundai Sonata here in 2004 because it was cheap. I think the dealer was having trouble selling it. 80,000 miles later the clutch doesn’t seem to have worn much.
One possible advantage of a manual is that it’s probably less likely to be stolen. Another that could be either a pro or con is that nobody else in the family can drive it. 16 year old step daughter is learning to drive on her mom’s automatic but wants to also learn my car. I’m not sure if that’s a good idea or not.
I notice that almost nobody in the US seems to use the hand (emergency) brake on an automatic. I often notice people jam it in park and get out as it rocks back and forward in the transmission lock. I don’t think the park position is supposed to be a substitute for the brake. That can’t be good for the transmission and rather unsafe on any sort of hill. I always put the hand brake on, take foot off foot brake and then put it in park.
It’s not something I’d feel safe doing.
I stop the car, then with my foot still on the service brake, I put the car itno neutral, then engage the parking/hand/emergency/whatever brake, and gently take my foot off the brake pedal to allow the hand brake to take the strain. Then, and only then, do I engage park in an automatic or 1st in a manual (these are really only designed to serve as a back-up).
Yeah, that’s what I do. You probably explained it better.
This reminds me of a pet peeve I’ve had with taking my manual transmission vehicles to the service shop. When everything was done, and I got out to my car, nine times out of ten the grease monkey had left the silly thing in first gear, and never set the hand brake! :eek:
Once when I had my manual car serviced, I was charged for automatic transmission fluid. They were good about it when I mentioned it and gave me a free oil change next time. I think they change the oil in the manual gearbox so I don’t think the price is that much different.
I don’t bother hassling them about this but almost always when they they do the “free 60 point check” or whatever it is during a service, I find that the automatic transmission fluid box is checked and clutch fluid or clutch adjustment boxes are not checked. I don’t know if that means they really don’t check anything or the mechanic simply tells someone else “all okay” and that person checks the usual boxes assuming an automatic.
I think that’s a function of most people not driving manual cars. I never cared about the handbrake until I learned to drive a stick. One other thing I’ve noticed - people who don’t drive stick will walk directly behind a car; manual drivers are less likely to do that (being aware of rollback).
Unfortunately, since CVTs are now getting better mileage than manuals, I think they are on their way out for good. I got my new '08 Sentra with a 6-speed manual, and they had to bring it in from another dealer. It’s fun to drive, but I fear it will be my last manual tranny. When I get rid of it, you may not be able to buy a manual transmission in any decent car.
I had a CVT in my last car ('06 Honda Civic Hybrid…yes I sold that for the Sentra…I drive 500 miles a month, and I cut my car payment in half). It was nice, but not as fun as a stick.
And for clairobscur, this is the reason why auto transmissions took off in the US long before they did in Eruope. An automatic installed in a big 1950’s yank-tank powered by a powerful engine wouldn’t have nearly as dramatic an impact on performance as an automatic in a Morris Minor, Peugot 403 or other small European car. Note that the Peugot is described as a ‘large family car’ and the engine maxes out at 1.8 litres. The smallest Ford engine in 1955-1960 seems to have been a 3.7 litre straight-six
I just recently bought a car with more electronic gizmos and automated features than any person honestly needs. Automatic climate control? Got it. A key that never leaves your pocket to unlock or start the car? Got that too. Navigation, power everything, blind-spot monitoring radar system, backup camera, adaptive corner-following headlamps, stability and traction control, rain sensing wipers and automatic headlights? Check, check, and check. A gazillion ways to take the burden of control away from the driver? Yup…all in there. And even with all that auotmation and technology, it’s a manual transission. My desire for “control” doesn’t extend to every aspect of the driving experience…just the part that makes the car go.
For the record, I really drive a manual because I’m stubborn. Sure, I do like their mechanical simplicity, higher efficiency, and I do think that they make for a better driving experience. I also think that the ability to drive stick (or even better, actually doing it day-to-day) is a sign of a more competent driver. But the biggest reason I don’t drive an automatic is the simple reason that I don’t like the idea of driving an automatic. I think it’s beneath me, and makes me a sheep. See? Pure stubbornness. And my wife feels exactly the same way. At least we can drive each other’s cars.
Actually, I think I wrote the text you quoted.
You want to really know why Americans drive automatics? Get your hands on a 1958 Chevy Bel Air station wagon with a 3 speed manual on the column, a clutch that jerks more than a 13 year old boy, no power brakes and no power steering. Yes, they made a lot of those. Drive that 2 ton behemoth around town for awhile and see how much “fun” it is to drive. Then give it to your wife, girlfriend, daughter and find out what she has to say about it.
Yes, a Mini Minor or an MG may seem more boring with an automatic (if you could get it started in the first place).
That’s why automotive technology has developed. That’s why there is no longer a need for car that requires a foot clutch.
Oops…you did. My mistake. That’s what I get for trying to “manually” quote something. 
This still doesn’t actually explain it. Morris Minors (not Minis!) went out of production nearly forty years ago. You’ve not explained the subsequent Atlantic divide between automatics and manuals which is still almost as wide as ever.
Edit: the reference to Morris Minors was assuming you were responding to slaphead’s post, which I realise might not be the case.
Morris, Mini, whatever. The point is that in a small, underpowered, very nimble car with a manual transmission is an easy thing to learn and operate. It’s no big deal, except to say that any decent riding mower these days (that any intelligent consumer would want to buy) has an automatic transmission. Again, get your hands on that '58 Chevy Bel Air station wagon and judge your “fun”. Those huge steering wheels were there for a reason. It was so you didn’t have to be a weightlifter to make a turn at the intersection. The clutches were a total PITA. Get rid of 'em! Chrysler did it by developing the push button transmission which the dragsters all adopted.
American cars have almost always been bigger, heavier and more unwieldy. Improvements like power brakes, power steering and automatic transmissions are desirable to the auto buying public.
Now, technology has far surpassed the manual transmission with a variety of very sophisticated alternatives that totally do away with the manual clutch. There’s no longer any advantage, other than some mental crutch, to feel that operating one is necessary. Race car drivers gave them up a long time ago. Why have three pedals for two feet? There is no advantage.
As one wise woman told me, the problem with a lot of men is that they think they are better drivers and better lovers than they really are. Use a little more lube and shift a little smoother. You’ll have a lot better driving experience.