Do you think manual transmissions in cars will make a comeback?

Why have two paddles for one foot, which is the case for automatics?

…unless you drive weird.

It is true that most race cars no longer require the use of a manual clutch, but that doesn’t really support your point. The transmissions they do use bear no resemblance whatsoever to the automatic you’ll find in a normal street car. They have clutches and gears just like a manual transmission, except that everything is controlled by computers instead of a human. Very few street cars have this type of transmission available even as an option, and they certainly aren’t cheap.

The above only applies to the higher levels of racing. Go to an amateur race at your local road course and virtually every race car there will have a manual clutch in it.

For the record, I drive (and race) a car with a manual clutch and I will continue to do so as long as I am physically able.

And your point is???

Go back to the OP. A lot of people take pictures with film. Do you think that will someday become the standard again? A lot of people knit with needles as a hobby. Do you think that hand knitted clothing will become the standard again? People go to Mideaval Faires. Is that a lifestyle that society is going to willingly revert to? Do you think outhouses and coal furnaces will again become the norm?

So you have your toy cars that you play with on a race track. BFD. That’s not the way that most people aspire to navigate congested traffic. The sophisticated, computer controlled automatic transmission is becoming more and more common every day. A five or six speed automatic is not a rarity and are not all that expensive.

Have your “fun”. You will find that more and more of your competitors will be installing an automatic transmissions unless the rules prohibit it simply because it is faster and better. That’s what happened to drag racing and a lot of other forms of auto racing. (The jousting competition at the Mideaval Faire never did like the idea of using a Jeep instead of a horse.) Come to think of it, do you think I could show up at the Kentucky Derby with a motorcycle and win the race?

Welcome to the 21st century.

In reality, I think that the manual transmission, at least in the US, will not die out or make a comeback. Rather, they’ve probably found the kind of equilibrium in users(10-20% of cars, maybe?) that they will maintain for a long time.

I think that because we’ve had the technology to completely supplant MTs for decades, but we still have the levels of use we have today. Regarding Spartydog’s analogy with film cameras, that makes my point quite well. As soon as a viable alternative to film came along, the transition happened practically overnight. And there are far more signs that film cameras are doomed to the dustbin of history after a decade of digital competition than there are signs of the same fate for manual transmissions after more than half a century.

My point is that if everyone wanted to be done with manual transmissions once and for all, they’ve had decades to make that change. The fact that they haven’t yet is a testament to their staying power, and a sign that we’ve found a stable balance between the automatic-driving majority and that particular subset of personality types that want manuals and won’t have it any other way. The long-term stability of MT use continues across generations, and so isn’t just a case of people with long memories of the “good old days”.

They were probably copycats of American cars but old Holdens were BIG buggers but many were manuals.

I drive a manual because that is all I can drive. I have only attempted to drive an auto twice. Both times I was freaked out by the fact that brake in an auto means STOP NOW and drive means MOVE NOW.

That sounds simple and to all you auto drivers I’m sure it is, it just freaked me out. I prefer the whole clutch in-change gear-clutch out thing.

My car also has wind up windows and no AC though :slight_smile:

That sort of speaks to the whole point of my OP - that we have had equilibrium for so long with 10-20% of drivers preferring manual transmissions, but with things changing so rapidly with fuel prices and people getting on board with things like putting the car in neutral going down a hill to save gas, if we might see an increase to take advantage of whatever fuel efficiency manual transmissions bring.

I think I am. As of a couple of years ago, German cars had the biggest average engine size in Europe, at about 2.0 litres, IIRC correctly. The Swedes were close behind, the UK had about 1.8L and in Italy it was only about 1.0L. For the US the figure was somewhere above three litres.

European cars are generally much smaller and lighter than US cars, and petrol/diesel costs a lot more than it does in the US. Hence things like auto transmissions, AC and all the other heavy, performance/mileage-sapping accessories that have been common in the US for decades are only just starting to become really popular now, when the technology has advanced enough to reduce the impact a bit.

I haven’t experienced an automatic yet that gives the degree of control over the launch of a car on ice, wet leaves, snow, etc., that you get with a manual clutch.

Automatics can’t finesse an upshift or a downshift like you can with a clutch.

When I first came to the US I was (and still am) surprised that automatics were the primary choice. In NZ and Australia manual transmissions are the default. I still don’t like driving an auto. I feel a lack of control on hills (up and down) and for cornering. Perhaps it depends a bit on what you grew up with? I have driven manual cars here (and enjoyed it) but it felt weird until I got over the stick being on the ‘wrong’ side

Sing your song to all of the F1 drivers. After all, what the hell do they know about finessing an upshift or downshift. They’re just a bunch of fools out there getting paid to wreck expensive cars.

I’m not a racing fan. I have to ask: do F1 drivers drive during snow, heavy rain, or on wet leaves or ice?

I bought a new Civic last fall and the dealer gave me $1200 off for buying a manual transmission. I was going to buy a manual anyways, but the price reduction was an extra bonus. I really enjoy it because there’s more interaction with the car. As I heard another stick-shift owner say, “With a manual you’re driving the car. With an automatic, you’re just riding in it.”

Actually, F1 doesn’t automatically stop races for rain. Not that this is to ignore the irrelevance of OtakuLoki’s comment.

It’s like hunting. I don’t mind if other people do it, but don’t make me do it.

Driving is hard enough in an automatic for me, and is not fun. I’ll be first in line for a robotic car that drives itself and frees me up to read or do something else that I find more interesting and fun than driving.

(Actually, not so irrelevant, once I read the whole thread properly :slight_smile: )

Does a '68 Chevy c10 truck count? Three on the tree with power nothing. It’s not bad. I’ll admit shifting out of first in the middle of a corner could be entertaining, but that just meant you were too heavy on the gas. How about a '69 C50 four speed, two speed rear end, with manual steering weighing in at 4 tons? You get use to it.

Automatics are not the penultimate transmission. They have there place. If you just want to get in the car, start it, and get to point c, then autos are fine. ( I’ve owned many automatics and drive one every day )

If you do anything that does not fall into the mainstream with a vehicle, then it is possible a manual is better suited. Anything that involves high torque being carried though the transmission is better severed with a manual. Clutches are cheap compared to a transmission rebuild ( we will gloss over that it’s fairly easy to tell when a clutch/manual transmission is starting to get to the point it needs servicing, compared to an auto where you might notice a change in shift patterns over the course of several months, before you come out of work one day and discover that you have no forward gears ). Clutches are easier to replace than to swap the transmission for a new one. This becomes a factor if you only replace vehicles because you have to, not just because the car is five years old.

I’ll admit there is a certain luddite factor involved as well. A transmission should have 1 wire connected to it, for the backup light sensor. Maybe a kickdown switch if the transmission is a TH400. It should not have a bundle of wires running to it that is 1/2 an inch thick. Any design that require 300$ in labor to replace a 25$ part is fundamentally flawed. Cite? The speed sensor in the tail of modern Ford C6 transmissions. If that goes out, no speedometer, and you might make it out of first gear, but you won’t get out of second. Now of course since this is inside the transmission, they have to take the thing apart to replace it. But to get the kind of performance out of an automatic transmission that you can get out of a manual, it requires this kind of sensor input to the computer to balance shift points, fuel mixture, etc.

Gnome.

I’m a small car type guy.

The first car I ever bought was a manual - A Toyota Tercel (not a great car, but eh it was ok) I intentionally bought it that way, because I thought it would be fun. It was.

My second car was an automatic - A Toyota Echo. I hated every moment of driving it for 3 years. Driving is something most of us do so often, it should be fun. And it wasn’t. It was very boring. Convenient sure, but boring. It wasn’t the car’s fault. I just didn’t like the lack of control.

My third car is a new 2008 Honda Fit Sport I bought earlier this year. I demanded a manual, and the dealership had to have it trucked to me (they had some, but only the ugly colors red and blue). It’s pretty much the most fun car i’ve ever driven, and I’ve gotten to drive quite a few sports cars.

Manual isn’t for everyone. It can be inconvenient. It can be annoying. But what it gives makes it much more than worthwhile for those of us that enjoy it. You feel CONSIDERABLY more in charge of the car. You can do things with a manual you simply cannot do in an automatic. I feel MUCH safer driving a manual, it’s hard to explain. It’s a lot more fun, keeps you actively engaged so you aren’t doing stupid crap like applying makeup and talking on the phone, and the car feels sportier, more powerful, and more responsive. You can generate wider ranges of torque, and I find it much easier to use in mountainous country, especially highways involving lots of uphill. It’s amazing just how drastic the difference is just changing the transmission type in a given car. I don’t think it’s ever going to go away either, because it’s almost always cheaper (my manual Fit cost $1000 less than the auto version) for the consumer AND the manufacturer. It’s much simpler, and doesn’t cost anywhere near as much to maintain/replace. And there are just way too many of us that won’t accept anything else. All the autos that masquerade as having manual modes are a total joke in that department.

If you’ve never learned to drive stick, then you might consider looking into it, because you don’t know what you’re missing. :wink: It takes a little bit of effort to learn, but it isn’t all that difficult once you understand what’s going on. And if you don’t like it, great, there will always be plenty of autos out there for you.