Certain types of drugs were not illegal in the 1960s. Methamphetamine, for one, was not in most states until the early 1970s. And steroids weren’t illegal until the 1980s; but that was only if they weren’t provided by a medical practitioner Also, if the meds were prescribed then they wouldn’t be “illegal”, would they?And I didn’t mention Hank Aaron because the question didn’t refer to him.
Nolan Ryan probably did the same things that everyone else did when he was in the league. He simply has been more circumspect about it than the majority of them have.
You didn’t mention Aaron by name but you mentioned him by alltime homerun king. I can see why people believe Aaron is the true homerun king but the fact that Aaron was using greenies in the 1960’s makes me feel he would have used roids in the 2000’s too. I guess I don’t see how guys like Aaron and Ryan get these free passes when if the government did some digging, like they did with Bond’s and Clemens, then they would find out that steroid use was pretty rampant, even in the 1960’s.
Baseball has always been known as a sport where the players find ways to cheat. Barry Bonds just happened to play in a taboo era of cheating and I think it’s wrong that he gets passed for The Hall of Fame when clearly there have been players already in The Hall of Fame who have used PEDS. In the Pittsburgh drug trials, Hall of Famers Willie Mays and Willie Stargell were bought up by ex Met player John Milner as dealers for amphetamines. Yet when you hear the name Willie Mays, Nolan Ryan, Willie Stargell or even Mickey Mantle, all everyone thinks about is how good and clean the game used to be but in reality the game of baseball has never been clean.
1173, go find our earlier discussion on the difference between amphetamines and steroids, come back and explain why you STILL believe they are remotely comparable.
What hurt both Ryan and Blyleven in balloting for the AL Cy Young Award that year was the fact their teams (the Angels and the Twins) were non-contenders. That’s why, in the end, voters gave the award to Jim Palmer whose Baltimore Orioles won the AL East. Also, there was the interesting fact that in 1973 there were 12 pitchers who won 20 games or more so that diminished the value of Ryan’s and Blyleven’s victory totals.
I understand how they aren’t comparable but what is the same, is the morality of using amphetamines vs steroids. Both were used to increase performance and just because Barry Bonds steroids turned him into the all time homerun leader, doesn’t make it right that Nolan Ryan used steroids to prolong his career and make him the all time strikeout leader. Both should either not be in The Hall of Fame or both should be in or at least both records should be held with an asterisk. When it comes to amphetamines use, I feel that a lot of players were using greenies in the 1960’s and they weren’t using them for fun, they used them to increase performance, so when these oldtimers bash Bonds and Clemens, I think they are hypocrites for doing so. Even fans who sit there and tell me how Bonds shouldn’t be in The Hall of Fame or isn’t the homerun king are hypocrites because 99% of us would have used steroids if it guaranteed a million dollar contract.
Seriously, go find that thread! Steroids fundamentally alter your body chemistry, amphetamines are more like Red Bull.
You yourself concede in this thread that amphetamines were nearly universal. If steroids were used on that scale, the Mitchell Report would’ve rivaled War and Peace in length.
Yeah I agree. and If I was a voter in 1973, I guarantee that I would have voted for Jim Palmer too for those same reasons. Looking at it now though, Blyleven had one heck of a year and even back then didn’t deserve to place 9th in the voting. He shoulda been at least top 5.
What percentage of MLB players do you think used in the steroid era? I wouldn’t be shocked if it was upwards of 70 percent.
I realize todays steroids and Hank Aaron amphetamines aren’t the same but like I said, the reasoning behind using each was the same so one shouldn’t be frowned upon more than the other.
I look at baseball as having maybe 2 time periods of a even playing field. Those two eras would probably be from around 1940-1960ish and the late 70’s to the early 90’s. Every other era had it’s advantages…1900’s was the dead ball era where pitchers could doctor up the balls then came the 1920’s and 30’s where the parks were smaller then the 1960’s and 70’s where pitching dominated again and of course the steroid era. I think the era we are in now is pretty even again.
Your bringing up a whole different subject. None the less even when blacks were allowed in baseball, the league quality didn’t change much during that time. It is amazing how many great black players came along during the late 40’s and early 50’s though. I wish guys like Oscar Charleston, Josh Gibson and Pops Lloyd were allowed to play in earlier generations because I do think they could have arguments as the best ever.
You mean the thread you slinked away from after being shown the difference, and how amphetamines are STILL major performance enhancers? Yeah, he should definitely check it out to see exactly how you’ll respond once again in the face of an argument you can’t win.
Is total nonsense. You will either be unwilling or unable to back this up with anything resembling a citation, and you will inevitably slink away from yet another thread where you’re challenged on a nonsensical claim. But you’ll manage to throw in a bunch of superfluous exclamation points and sentence fragments before you do so.
I do, suspect, though, that a lot of them are going on the DL for things that pitchers years ago would have kept going through. I’m not saying that is a bad thing: a lot of that “keep pitching through the soreness” leads to more severe injuries later.
I’ve never seen a study, but I’d bet that more pitchers nowadays wind up retiring because of ineffectiveness and Koufaxian “blew his arm out and then was done,” is less common.
Considering baseball is a 162 game grind and we are talking about all time numbers, I’d contend that amphetamines are arguably more performance enhancing than steroids.
That being said, it wouldn’t surprise me if Ryan used, and yes, I’d likely put him between 20-30 in all time pitchers. Not near the Top 10 due to issues of control.
While both obviously help tremendously in performing at top-level throughout a long, long season, I’d say the recuperative effects of steroids would be a bigger plus. And when you combine them, presto: a professional cup of coffee.
