[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Kate has a right to her feelings, whatever they may be. What she does NOT have the right to do, IMO, is to share them in such a way with someone as vulnerable as Alex. She should have vented that to a pastor, Navy counselor (if one exists), family, trusted friend, even Alex’s doctor or health care team.
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Bravo. Precisely and cogently put.
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
But there’s also a point where you’re allowed to say, “I cannot stay here, and remain healthy.” Being selfish isn’t necessarily wrong behavior.
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Fair enough. And if “Kate” is too self-absorbed to deal with Alex’s problems, then she has every right to abandon ship and leave. Nobody will fault her for that.
What is WRONG, however, is dumping all her negative emotions on Alex. I don’t care what she’s going through – it’s totally inappropriate behavior. That’s why mental hospitals normally have safeguards against that; I don’t know how she weaseled her way to him, but she did.
Hopefully, “Alex” will recognize the warning signs (or have someone explain them to him) and drop her like a hot potato. “Kate” is probably a nice lady to everyone else, but to Alex, she’s as dangerous as crystal meth.
[QUOTE=Bricker]
Bravo. Precisely and cogently put.
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<somewhat startled> Thank you <checks to see that I am in the Pit; yes>
[QUOTE=stretch]
Guin, I know you think you know a lot about mental illness being as you’re fucked in the head, but I wish you’d quit acting like you know everything. Because obviously you don’t know jack shit about suicide or suicidal ideation.
My husband is suicidal a signficant amount of the time. When he is at his worst, his concerns are for everybody but himself. He worries how he is ruining my life because I have to take care of him. Ruining his son’s life because he’s such a loser and bad example. Ruining the dogs’ lives because he is inconsisent. He thinks it would be easier for everyone else if he were gone, because he believes he is a burden. He is in a huge amount of pain, but all he thinks about is everyone else.
I will be so mad if he offs himself. But the last thing that I will be doing is bitching about how his death is so hard for me, knowing how life has been so hard for him.
Tell you what…deal with some people who have mental health issues (other than your own limited problems). Then you’ll have a better framework for your proclamations about how things are.
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Because of course, you’re not using your OWN experience with your husband’s to judge every case, right? :dubious:
Nor did I SAY that being selfish in that particular way is the fault of said person. It’s just how it SOMETIMES works out. Yes, I ONLY know about myself. Do you only use your husband’s case to judge everyone with depression? Well, then don’t fucking accuse me of using my own experience. Tit for tat, honeybunches.
[QUOTE=stretch]
Guin, I know you think you know a lot about mental illness being as you’re fucked in the head, but I wish you’d quit acting like you know everything. Because obviously you don’t know jack shit about suicide or suicidal ideation.
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Actually, I think she nailed it quite well for the suicidal ideation and attempts I made as a late adolescent. And yes, I was diagnosed by two medical professionals with clinical depression, so it wasn’t stupid kid attention getting stuff.
Not everyone attempts suicide for the same reasons. Some of us are wholey self-absorbed, some of us are in pain because we’re causing everyone else pain, some of us are Big Damn Heroes and some of us are undramatically and logically ending too painful lives.
None of us has one definition or scenario which will cover every, or even most, suicidal people or situations. So ALL Y’ALL can STFU and put away the broad brushes here. Talk about your *own *experiences and what you’ve *personally *gone through, but don’t tell me how I felt or what I was thinking, thanks.
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
Because of course, you’re not using your OWN experience with your husband’s to judge every case, right? :dubious:
Nor did I SAY that being selfish in that particular way is the fault of said person. It’s just how it SOMETIMES works out. Yes, I ONLY know about myself. Do you only use your husband’s case to judge everyone with depression? Well, then don’t fucking accuse me of using my own experience. Tit for tat, honeybunches.
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Actually, no, I used his case to illustrate my point. I could use my case as well…my suicidal ideation does involve not caring about the people I leave behind because, well, I’ll be dead and out of here. My uncle’s suicidal ideation involves escaping the voices in his head. my aunt’s suicidal ideation which involves wanting to be allowed to drink.
I could go on about the many people I know who have attempted suicide and continue to have suicidal ideation, but my point is that you, Guin, feel the need to come into every fucking thread and state things as if you actually have a clue. “Suicide and depression are selfish.” “Rather, you are in so much pain, that you cannot think of anything other than yourself.” These two statements are not factual; they are your opinion based upon the way you feel about yourself. You are the one extrapolating here. I was illustrating that this is not necessarily correct.
and
I like you as a poster, so will give you a break for feeling the need to scold me for asking for people to remember that suicidal people are not inherently selfish. I know you think you are the Board mom and can’t help yourself.
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
At 14, my good friend- the forever attention whore- downed a bunch of Tylenol or something, causing her mom to find her and call 911. After a hospital visit and a stomach pump, she was back home and everyone was focused on her. The thing that got me was that she’s smart, she knew taking a bunch of Tylenol probably wouldn’t really do anything to her, she just wanted the attention. Hell, later she admitted this.
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Ironically, a bunch of Tylenol really IS one of the ways you can effectively kill yourself with non-prescription drugs. But destroying your liver is a lingering and agonizing death, and for attention-seeking “suicide attempts” like you’re talking about, it’s a particularly bad choice because it can quite easily cause lead to liver damage. Per the Wikipedia article:
Spazcat, is there an update?
[QUOTE=aruvqan]
Spazcat, is there an update?
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Alex is out of the hospital and doing minor stuff around the base until his evaluation at the end of the month. That’s all I know so far.
If you or someone you know is diagnosed with depression, please do some reading about it. Don’t just assume that you know what it is to “be depressed.” That’s not the same thing as having the illness.
Don’t assume that what worked for you in talking you down from a suicide attempt will work for your friends. Encourage your friends to get counselling.
People can still die from manipulative attempts at suicide. Treat them all seriously. Get that person counselling. He needs help if he is using suicide attempts to get attention.
Often suicide is an impulsive act. People don’t always build up to it.
People don’t always know when they are depressed even when they have been previously diagnosed many times with the illness. There is a reasonable explanation. Think about what part of the body is temporarily damaged by depression. Then cut them a little slack when they don’t think straight.
If you are a caregiver, don’t be afraid to ask, “Is there something I can do to make you feel better?” Sometimes just being calmly present and holding our hands is enough.
[QUOTE=SpazCat]
Alex is out of the hospital and doing minor stuff around the base until his evaluation at the end of the month. That’s all I know so far.
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And on the girlfriend front?
if she would like to talk with a long time military wife, Im available.
[QUOTE=SpazCat]
What’s pissing me off the most about Kate’s reaction is that she’s upset with Alex for messing up her Life Plan. Hey Kate, guess what. I had one of those too up until six months ago when my engagement blew up in my face. Rebuilding sucks. But you’ve got to do it in this world.
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IF that was really this gal’s reaction, well, all I have to say to that is that I seem to be forced to re-write my “Life Plan” on a regular basis, about every two years or so. I know too many people who really believe you can set up 5 year plans for life and adhere to them regardless of what happens. You can’t. Shit happens. Accidents happen, people get sick, houses burn down… Ya gotta roll with the punches, hard as that can be sometimes, and revise those Life Plans as needed.
[QUOTE=aruvqan]
And on the girlfriend front?
if she would like to talk with a long time military wife, Im available.
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I haven’t talked to her lately. Our work schedules are currently in opposite land. I’ll mention your offer next time I see her.
Okay, update:
Alex is out of the Navy. He’ll be back here on Monday (living with Kate again) because his dad’s pissed at him. So hopefully he’ll be able to get back into school next semester and finish his degree (and get free counseling). She’s going to kick his ass into gear and make him get a job and get back into school. From there we will take it.
SpazCat, thanks for the update.
I hope that things work out for both Alex and Kate. (And may I say that for all the vitriol that Kate got in this thread, Alex’ dad sounds like a piece of work.)
[QUOTE=featherlou]
All life is pain and misery, in lesser and greater amounts. Should we drown every baby at birth?
I see your point, but ending your own pain and starting everyone else’s isn’t exactly selfless. For the most part, people commit suicide because they feel life is too painful to live any more. They may be right, but the bottom line (in my opinion) is that it is a decision based on your own condition - a self-centered decision. I’m not saying it’s a right or wrong decision; it might be right for some, and wrong for others.
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My grandmother killed herself. My mother says she did it believing it to be selfless thing she could have done. Her mental illness and depression were already causing the family pain, she felt by ending her life, she’d be releaving her family of the burden of her. The fact that her illness was also bankrupting the family didn’t help. The only time I’ve heard my mother go off on an acquaintence was when the acquaintence said suicide was always selfish. My mother - the victim in her own mother’s suicide - does not agree. Her mother apparently communicated to her children before her death that she was making a sacrifice for them.
(Yeah, quite a burden to put on your children - and it certainly hasn’t been reprocussionless - and this was 40 years ago - but she wasn’t being selfish. And had she lived, it wouldn’t have been reprocussionless either).