I moved this response from the Robin Williams thread at the request of the moderators.
For me it has been 29 years, and I am definitely still sad about losing my father; however, I certainly do not feel angry toward him or think he was selfish. I cosign the following:
I think suicide is strongly associated with isolation. I think the paradigm, the conventional wisdom, that it is “selfish” serves to remind people with suicidal thoughts that they are connected, that they are interdependent, that other people out their are aware of and interacting with them.
So I guess regardless of whether or not it’s “true” (and I tend to think that’s a silly question–what makes something “selfish”? Everything we do affects others, but surely everything we do doesn’t have to be for others), I think it may be a useful characterization. I think people are less likely to commit suicide if the rhetoric around the act itself is always a reminder that other people do care.
So my father’s memory should be tarnished, and his character called into question, to serve as a warning for others? I’m not cool with that.
Of course it’s selfish-if you possess anything in your life, it is your self.
An apropos article about this subject, with which I am in agreement.
Previous poll on the subject, also on the idea that it’s the “coward’s way out”.
In a lot of ways, yes it is. But to the person dealing with being bi-polar and especially on the depressive side of it…that’s all you can see. I’ve strongly considered suicide before as a result of being in a severely depressive period. In that state it doesn’t matter what good is going on, life just seems hopeless and ending it it all can appear the only way to make it all stop.
Living with mental illness is no joke and I’m glad every day now that I finally reached out for help and medication.
Wanting someone to live in misery so you will not be hurt by their death is selfish. However suicide seems traumatic to survivors. However they don’t all act the same. Some are devastated but some seem more accepting of the problems the person had.
But isn’t that precisely what makes it not selfish?
If I eat my lunch that I brought with me to work, that does not strike me as selfish. If I forget to bring my lunch and I’m hungry–so I eat my coworker’s lunch that was left in the communal fridge, that does seem selfish.
Knorf, thanks for posting the link to that great article. I am going to share that on Facebook and Twitter.
ETA:
What about being devastated, but still not being angry with, or blaming, the person who died? Isn’t that what we do in most other cases when people close to us die?
What I am saying is that it is a justified selfishness. Not everything is to be shared with the world-some decisions should be entirely personal.
Yet another post stupidly set up as public. Amazing how often people do that.
ETA: Of course it’s selfish, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with that and do not talk negatively about people who commit suicide. I could invite homeless people into my living room every night if I wanted, but I selfishly treasure my privacy. We make selfish decisions multiple times a day. If you don’t have power over your own life, then what do you have?
I’ve never understood the problem with that. If you’re willing to vote in a MB poll, you should be willing to stand by your vote.
Exactly: I was very purposeful in making the poll public. If I want some kind of accurate sociological measure of people’s private feelings, I will look up some Gallup data. If you’re not willing to stand up and be counted here, then whatever, i’m not interested in your contribution.
ETA: And I see it didn’t deter you anyway, Labrador. Are you just butthurt because now you can be called out? Or do you wish you could get more poll support from your less courageous compatriots? Go ahead, start your own anonymous poll and link it here if you want. Then we can find out how many people skulk around here thinking this but aren’t willing to say it to my “face”.
Given Manda JO’s typically levelheaded response to your OP, it’s almost as if you’re looking for an excuse to play the victim card here.
This.
Really? You must have a very limited imagination if you can’t think of a reason some people would want to participate in a poll without feeling like they need to defend their position. Are you also perplexed that political polls are anonymous?
No because this is by definition an interactive environment. There is a huge, clear difference.
No, I am just standing up for my position. The same position taken in the Guardian article. And, refreshingly, the same position everyone seemed to be taking on Twitter when I searched for “Williams suicide selfish”.
I’m not butt hurt at all. If I didn’t want to participate and defend my position, I wouldn’t have participated. I’m just pointing out that a lot of people won’t want to defend what they perceive as a minority opinion.
If you don’t care about any kind of accurate representation from people on the Dope, then why on earth did you make it a poll, as opposed to a standard thread?
My father underwent extensive treatment for cancer - everything medically possible at the time, plus some experimental trials. When his doctor finally said there were no other options, Daddy chose to go home and spend his last weeks/days with his family. (At the time, hospice options weren’t really available.) He finally reached a point where the pain was intolerable, whereupon he chose to overdose on his pain medications, intentionally ending his suffering. (Obviously, I didn’t know this then. I was only 9 years old.) I don’t consider that suicide, however - some combination of palliative care and euthanasia, I suppose…
A couple of decades later, my sister had undergone years of treatment for major depression. She felt that she couldn’t manage the pain any more, treatment didn’t seem to be helping. She chose to end her life. I see these two acts as equivalent, physically and morally. Neither was selfish. They’d both sought all of the treatment available to alleviate the pain, and when those didn’t help? The pain finally won.
I think that I’m the selfish one, to wish that my loved ones were still here so that I could enjoy their presence.