Doctor Who Series 9 discussion (spoilers as it airs)

[Knowed_Out]

@scr4

But how would he evolve? I thought each Doctor was a copy generated from the “hard drive” in the teleporter, and therefore identical.

Identical in body, but more advanced in non-physical characteristics. Among them, brutal single-minded purpose which the Time Lords mistake as Dalek behavior.

[TBG]

@Baron_Greenback

Looks like Peter Jackson might actually be going to direct an episode (video includes PJ and Capaldi):

I dunno, a three hour episode might blow the BBC’s budget.

[DSeid]

@Knowed_Out

My friend Scott and I had an intense discussion about this ep.

We concluded that each time the Doctor had the re-experience, it was actually a new generation of the Doctor, much like when a species has children. Each generation of species evolves. Innate intelligence changes, internal roadmap is modified, efficient behavior and problem solving ability is improved, much like Bill Murray’s character in Groundhog Day. The Doctor learns from his previous mistakes even though he doesn’t remember making them.

2 billion years later, he become the Hybrid prophesied by the Time Lords, not because he merged with another species, but because he improved himself through 2 billion years of evolution. He retained the body because of the reset he kept programming. Thus, while his body did not go undergo change, his mind and soul did. He is now a 2 billion year-advanced version of a Time Lord.

The Time Lords intended this as a prison to force him to confess the secret of how he became a hybrid, but he had no such secret. It only came to be after his 2 billion year evolution. Thus, the Time Lords’ prophecy was self-fulfilling. They engineered their own doom.

As speculated earlier in this thread, spoilered because I am so sure it is is true:

The Doctor is not The Hybrid. We know who The Hybrid is, have for several eps, and he just called her by the name she prefers: "The Hybrid destined to conquer Gallifrey and stand in its ruins… is Me."The difference case makes.

[leahcim]

@DSeid

As speculated earlier in this thread, spoilered because I am so sure it is is true:

I have an alternate hypothesis – that a previous version of Clara is actually secretly the Doctor’s mother. She’s the one who named him Basil Disco.

[Penfeather]

@DSeid

As speculated earlier in this thread, spoilered because I am so sure it is is true:

The Doctor is not The Hybrid. We know who The Hybrid is, have for several eps, and he just called her by the name she prefers: "The Hybrid destined to conquer Gallifrey and stand in its ruins… is Me."The difference case makes.

Yeah, I’m assuming it is too.

[Half_Man_Half_Wit]

@Penfeather

Yeah, I’m assuming it is too.

It would certainly explain why there’s such a confusingly named character around (a bit gimmicky, though), and it was the first thing I thought, but then I remembered that the Doctor explicitly claims that the hybrid is half Dalek, half Time Lord; and later on, that there’s no such thing as half a Dalek. The straightforward implication here is that the hybrid is all-Time Lord (but perhaps somehow ‘Time Lord plus x’). Of course, it might also be that the prophecy is wrong in that regard; but then, since, it’s implied that the Doctor knows of the identity of the hybrid from the beginning, why would he repeat that part? (Can anybody remember, does he say it to the veil, or just while monologuing?)

[Nobody]

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

(Can anybody remember, does he say it to the veil, or just while monologuing?)

If it’s the part I’m thinking of he says it after escaping the confession dial, after he sends the boy (wow, that was convenient timing) off to the city to herald his arrival.

[Penfeather]

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

…I remembered that the Doctor explicitly claims that the hybrid is half Dalek, half Time Lord; and later on, that there’s no such thing as half a Dalek…

I’m also assuming he’s forgotten Dalek Sec.

[Jragon]

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

It would certainly explain why there’s such a confusingly named character around (a bit gimmicky, though), and it was the first thing I thought, but then I remembered that the Doctor explicitly claims that the hybrid is half Dalek, half Time Lord; and later on, that there’s no such thing as half a Dalek. The straightforward implication here is that the hybrid is all-Time Lord (but perhaps somehow ‘Time Lord plus x’). Of course, it might also be that the prophecy is wrong in that regard; but then, since, it’s implied that the Doctor knows of the identity of the hybrid from the beginning, why would he repeat that part? (Can anybody remember, does he say it to the veil, or just while monologuing?)

The Doctor never claimed that. Everyone else did. In fact, in his monologue he explicitly claims that perception is wrong. In his final monologue, he said it was “prophesied to be a cross between two warrior races”.

What are two warrior races?

The vikings and the Mire. The Mire. Who are explicitly a warrior race that they stole an immortality device from to give to the viking Ashildr.

@Penfeather

I’m also assuming he’s forgotten Dalek Sec.

The Daleks killed him. He said the “Daleks would never allow it”, they didn’t.

[Broomstick]

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

It would certainly explain why there’s such a confusingly named character around (a bit gimmicky, though), and it was the first thing I thought, but then I remembered that the Doctor explicitly claims that the hybrid is half Dalek, half Time Lord; and later on, that there’s no such thing as half a Dalek. The straightforward implication here is that the hybrid is all-Time Lord (but perhaps somehow ‘Time Lord plus x’). Of course, it might also be that the prophecy is wrong in that regard; but then, since, it’s implied that the Doctor knows of the identity of the hybrid from the beginning, why would he repeat that part? (Can anybody remember, does he say it to the veil, or just while monologuing?)

The legend the Doctor quotes says the hybrid is half Time Lord and half Dalek - he’s just saying what other people say. Then he states that the Daleks would never allow such a hybrid to live.

…and ninja’d

[Alessan]

@Penfeather

I’m also assuming he’s forgotten Dalek Sec.

If he’s like the rest of us, he’s tried to.

[Jragon]

Also, whenever anyone tells the Doctor he’s too kind and never would take vengeance on anyone, I always like to remember that time 10 unilaterally sentenced the family of blood to literal eternal torment. 10 was kinda a sociopath sometimes, you guys.

[Penfeather]

Well, at least they’re killing off those stupid sonic sunglasses. Although River Song, apparently gets a sonic trowel. The Christmas Special looks to be a fairly light-hearted affair, anyway.

[Gyrate]

@robertliguori

My one quibble was that I’m pretty sure that based on the rate of “4000 years -> even layer of skulls around the castle”, by the two billion year mark, the ocean should be mostly bone.

It was 7,000 years IIRC but yes, this bothered me too. Bone and stools (which, you may recall, preceded him out the window).

[Jragon]

@Gyrate

It was 7,000 years IIRC but yes, this bothered me too. Bone and stools (which, you may recall, preceded him out the window).

I mean, it’s a literal pocket universe that can magically reset itself to a given state. Complaining about these things in Doctor Who is already futile, but when it’s a magically constructed torture chamber it’s doubly futile.

[Gyrate]

@Jragon

I mean, it’s a literal pocket universe that can magically reset itself to a given state. Complaining about these things in Doctor Who is already futile, but when it’s a magically constructed torture chamber it’s doubly futile.

I know, but it’s the fact that there are some skulls (indicating a large number of previous iterations) but not enough skulls that annoys me (also, after two billion years he’d be wading through Doctor Dust in the teleport room even accounting for dust blown away). If it reset everything it wouldn’t be an issue, but then it wouldn’t be as interesting an episode.

(Mind you, I had similar issues with The Stolen Earth, where the TARDIS could drag the Earth across the galaxy with just enough inertial disturbance to rattle the crockery but no more. I’m funny like that.)

[Quartz]

@Jragon

What are two warrior races?

The vikings and the Mire. The Mire. Who are explicitly a warrior race that they stole an immortality device from to give to the viking Ashildr.

How about humans and the Mire?

[Gyrate]

Where exactly did the Doctor get his magic resurrection stone? Is it Time Lord technology? Because that would make Me/Ashildr half-human/half-Time Lord. Humans are certainly a warrior race (as indeed are most races we’ve met except maybe the Ood and whatever race that undertaker guy belonged to).

[DSeid]

@Gyrate

It was 7,000 years IIRC but yes, this bothered me too. Bone and stools (which, you may recall, preceded him out the window).

The way I first read this made me wonder … does the Doctor poop? Did the castle have plumbing that dumped outside?

Again, better not to over think but we DO like when they do manage to keep the story internally consistent.

The “magic resurrection stone” was of Mire origin, big sign placed as “great warrior race” and Vikings explicitly referred to in the same tone. Me is a hybrid of two great warrior races, we know this. The Doctor is not Me. But was not a big fan of calling her that name, and in the last ep mainly referred to by her title, Mayor. Yes it was a bit of a shaggy dog set up, lots of work for a somewhat painful but minor punny payoff … but after it was mentioned here and after I hit my forehead oh duh I could not help but to smile.

[Infovore]

@Gyrate

Where exactly did the Doctor get his magic resurrection stone? Is it Time Lord technology? Because that would make Me/Ashildr half-human/half-Time Lord. Humans are certainly a warrior race (as indeed are most races we’ve met except maybe the Ood and whatever race that undertaker guy belonged to).

You mean the thing he used on Ashildr? He got it from the Mire’s armor, I thought. It was a field medkit that they each carried.