Does a man subject himself to significant legal risk for rescuing a child in distress?

[Rand_Rover]

@Emtar_KronJonDerSohn

Two weeks ago I was driving down a busy 5 lane arterial road on the way home from work. A beautiful blonde haired blue eyed little girl maybe 18mos old toddled out in front of my car. I locked up the brakes and barely missed killing her (ABS is great) but I hesitated to get out of the car. I did, but I did t touch her at all, I waved my hands like I was shooing a group of chickens and she got back up on the sidewalk. Except for the traffic jam tryin to get around my car, no one was around, no other kids, no parent. I didn’t want anything to do with this kid but I couldn’t drive off and leave her to wander back into the road and get killed or get swiped by an actual pedophile that I was so afraid of looking like. If I put her in my car and drove her even straight to the police station they’d lock me up and throw away the key. So I stood there on the side of the road stumped onwhat to do, trying to remember how to actually dial an outgoing call on my iPhone to call the police. After at least a minute her mother appeared and said “oh, tee hee, looks like one got away! Tee hee!” and I suggested she might consider going out of her way to ensure her children don’t wander into the street and get killed during rush hour.

I’m just one data point, but that’s how I responded in that situation. I am 30, I have 3 daughters of my own, one of them younger than this girl and one a few months older. I love kids, but that would likely only heighten suspicions if someone accused me of being a pedophile.

You are part of the problem. Why did you have to feel bad at all about picking up the girl and taking her to the nearest house. Someone could have thought you were a molester for the split second that you would have been carrying a perhaps crying toddler, but so what? You’d have been perhaps saving her life.

It’s like the stuff I’m always saying in threads about racism–it takes two to tango. You think “it’s gotten so bad that I’m not comfortable even touching a child to get her out of the street.” But it’s YOU who’s feeling that. The outside circumstances that you believe force you to feel that way actually do not such thing–you have chosen that response.

You can choose a different response if you want to.

[Rand_Rover]

@MandaJo

Did they say anything that made it clear that this is what they were thinking? It seems like these stories often have the phrase “treated me like” or “acted as if”. Often, I’ll see the expression “looked at me like”. I think men worry a lot about being seen as a child molester (with some reason), and perhaps project that anxiety. As a woman, I might interpret that exact same behavior as bitchy or rude, but I wouldn’t see suspicion.

Exactly.

@Scumpup

The words “give me my kid!” were used. The words “thank you” were not. Kite boy glared at me like he thought he had heat vision.

So that would be a simple “no” to Manda JO’s questions then, right?

Look, you saved a drowning kid with shitty parents. The shitty parents continued to act shitty after you saved the drowning kid, which isn’t that surprising.

This doesn’t need to be a story about how you felt that others thought you might be a molester–but you seem to want to make it into that kind of story.

[msmith537]

Do Good Sumaritan laws protect me if I rescue a child in distress while not wearing pants?

[Mr.Accident]

As a guy who’s had his reputation ruined by being accused of being a pedophile, complete with police and Child Safety Service investigations, I completely understand why other guys worry about what other people think they are doing with/around kids.

I was cleared by the authorities, never even saw a jail cell over it, but it’s still not a fun experience.

[Rand_Rover]

@Mr.Accident

As a guy who’s had his reputation ruined by being accused of being a pedophile, complete with police and Child Safety Service investigations, I completely understand why other guys worry about what other people think they are doing with/around kids.

I was cleared by the authorities, never even saw a jail cell over it, but it’s still not a fun experience.

So . . . what happened?

[Scumpup]

@Rand_Rover

Exactly.

So that would be a simple “no” to Manda JO’s questions then, right?

Look, you saved a drowning kid with shitty parents. The shitty parents continued to act shitty after you saved the drowning kid, which isn’t that surprising.

This doesn’t need to be a story about how you felt that others thought you might be a molester–but you seem to want to make it into that kind of story.

Gosh, for somebody who wasn’t there, unless you happen to be fat ass or kite boy, you seem to feel pretty confident passing judgement on it all. I’ll just go ahead and consider you to have said your piece and disregard you for the balance of this thread. If Manda Jo wants to know more she can ask.

[Rand_Rover]

@Scumpup

Gosh, for somebody who wasn’t there, unless you happen to be fat ass or kite boy, you seem to feel pretty confident passing judgement on it all. I’ll just go ahead and consider you to have said your piece and disregard you for the balance of this thread. If Man a Jo wants to know more she can ask.

I’m not passing judgement. I’m just pointing out that Manda Jo is right–you seem unable to identify a specific reason indicating that they thought you were a pedophile.

[robert_columbia]

@msmith537

Do Good Sumaritan laws protect me if I rescue a child in distress while not wearing pants?

I believe that, in theory, intent is an essential element of these types of offenses.

[QUOTE=Code of Virginia § 18.2-67.10 (emphasis mine)]

…
“Sexual abuse” means an act committed with the intent to sexually molest, arouse, or gratify any person, where:

a. The accused intentionally touches the complaining witness’s intimate parts or material directly covering such intimate parts;

b. The accused forces the complaining witness to touch the accused’s, the witness’s own, or another person’s intimate parts or material directly covering such intimate parts;

c. If the complaining witness is under the age of 13, the accused causes or assists the complaining witness to touch the accused’s, the witness’s own, or another person’s intimate parts or material directly covering such intimate parts; or

d. The accused forces another person to touch the complaining witness’s intimate parts or material directly covering such intimate parts.

…

[/QUOTE]

So, from my non-lawyerly perspective, it looks like just being pantsless or touching a pantsless child does not make you guilty, you have to have a sexual intent behind what you do. What is plainly obvious is that if 12 random people would believe that you did have a sexual intent, that’s a problem, which goes back to the OP’s question to begin with - fears related to avoiding becoming thrust into or lost in the “system” based on misunderstood behavior.

[Emtar_KronJonDerSohn]

@Rand_Rover

You are part of the problem. Why did you have to feel bad at all about picking up the girl and taking her to the nearest house. Someone could have thought you were a molester for the split second that you would have been carrying a perhaps crying toddler, but so what? You’d have been perhaps saving her life.

It’s like the stuff I’m always saying in threads about racism–it takes two to tango. You think “it’s gotten so bad that I’m not comfortable even touching a child to get her out of the street.” But it’s YOU who’s feeling that. The outside circumstances that you believe force you to feel that way actually do not such thing–you have chosen that response.

You can choose a different response if you want to.

I don’t know if maybe you’d like to read my post again, but I got the girl out of the street, kept her from wandering back into the street until her shitty mother appeared, and in all likelihood saved her life.

Please inform me what else was required of me in this situation or apologize.

[Rand_Rover]

@Emtar_KronJonDerSohn

I don’t know if maybe you’d like to read my post again, but I got the girl out of the street, kept her from wandering back into the street until her shitty mother appeared, and in all likelihood saved her life.

You are so worried about looking like a child molester that you hesitated about even getting out of your car (!), didn’t simply grab the child to get her out the street, and didn’t do anything but stand there once the child walked by itself off the street. I think that if you were to have a healthier attitude about this whole thing, you’d have actually been able to help the child more effectively.

Please inform me what else was required of me in this situation or apologize.

:rolleyes:

[Mr.Accident]

@Rand_Rover

So . . . what happened?

I was babysitting my youngest sister one day. I was in my early 20s, she was around 2 or 3, and going through that stage where keeping clothes on her was next to impossible without duct tape. She was in her room playing while I was cooking dinner. I was handling hot food when the door bell rang. She came streaking through the living room and answered the door before I could go from the kitchen to the front door. One of my neighbors saw this, assumed I was molesting her, and called the cops.

The only thing that kept me from being arrested on the spot was the three cops that showed up knew my mom, and she had arrived before the cops had. They took my mom and my sister aside and talked to them. They said that obviously I wasn’t molesting her and left.

It wasn’t but a few days later that CSS (or whatever they’re called these days) showed up. The lady talked to us, talked to my sister, and didn’t think anything wrong was going on.

It didn’t stop the neighbors from gossiping, and since I lived in a small town, it didn’t take long before people I hardly knew had heard it.

Now a days if I walk down the street in that town, parents cross the street with their kid, give me dirty looks, grab kids up and run inside, etc.

[kambuckta]

@Rand_Rover

You are so worried about looking like a child molester that you hesitated about even getting out of your car (!), didn’t simply grab the child to get her out the street, and didn’t do anything but stand there once the child walked by itself off the street. I think that if you were to have a healthier attitude about this whole thing, you’d have actually been able to help the child more effectively.
:rolleyes:

Oh good lord, hell must be reversing the global warming trend. I agree with Rand Rover.

[DrDeth]

I had something similar happen to me:

I was walking down the street in Downtown San Jose, near the Federal Building. There was a mom talking on her cell, sitting on a fountain ring (which is no longer a fountain, but …) She wasn’t watching her kid. Said kid was playing on the light-rail tracks. Here comes the train. The driver is ringing his bell like a madman. I ran over, and grabbed the kid off the track. The look on the driver’s face as he was about to hit the kid will never leave my mind.

Mom is now looking (kid is crying), come over, and grabs kid. She takes kid by hand, runs over to Federal Policeman standing guard in building, and is pointing at me and yelling. I scram.

Thus, Emtar KronJonDerSohn is right, and Rand Rover is wrong. Despite my saving her kids life, and saving the driver from endless nitemares, I had to get out of there or I am sure I’d have been accused of something (I dont think the Mom actually saw me rescue the kid, just that I grabbed the kid by one arm). Later, I talked to some guys I know in the building, and the Mom was claiming someone had assaulted her kid (altho she didn’t speak much English so the story was quite garbled).

At the least I would have been arrested by a Federal Cop (and those FPS “cops” are very low on the totem pole, professionally wise, one step above a security guard). This would have entailed the loss of my job, and thousands in legal fees. Sure, if I had been able to find that driver, I’d be in the clear- after paying those legal fees, being suspended, having my picture in the paper, being ruined professionally, etc.

All because a Mom couldn’t be bothered to watch her kid. And because the media wants ad revenue thus it runs needless “scare stories” about random child molesters wandering the streets and “stranger danger”:rolleyes: (a hint- the danger is NOT from a stranger, it’s from someone the kid and the Mom knows and trusts).

[Wesley_Clark]

@Mr.Accident

I was babysitting my youngest sister one day. I was in my early 20s, she was around 2 or 3, and going through that stage where keeping clothes on her was next to impossible without duct tape. She was in her room playing while I was cooking dinner. I was handling hot food when the door bell rang. She came streaking through the living room and answered the door before I could go from the kitchen to the front door. One of my neighbors saw this, assumed I was molesting her, and called the cops.

The only thing that kept me from being arrested on the spot was the three cops that showed up knew my mom, and she had arrived before the cops had. They took my mom and my sister aside and talked to them. They said that obviously I wasn’t molesting her and left.

It wasn’t but a few days later that CSS (or whatever they’re called these days) showed up. The lady talked to us, talked to my sister, and didn’t think anything wrong was going on.

It didn’t stop the neighbors from gossiping, and since I lived in a small town, it didn’t take long before people I hardly knew had heard it.

Now a days if I walk down the street in that town, parents cross the street with their kid, give me dirty looks, grab kids up and run inside, etc.

I found that pretty funny, it sounds like an episode of curb your enthusiasm.

I was once at a party where a bunch of kids ran up to a car that was parked on the side of the road. One of the kids (about 4) was standing in the middle of the street and I was sitting in my car a few feet away. So I went up to him, picked him up under his armpits and carried him out of the road and onto the lawn. He was the child of a family friend, but if he had been a total strangers kid who knows what would’ve happened. I’m assuming/hoping nothing but I don’t have a lot of faith in the public at large or the police. Soccer mom mobs and aggressive cops scare me. but even if he was a total stranger I would’ve done the same thing anyway. But I wouldn’t be surprised (maybe a little surprised) if someone called the cops on me for it though.

This is great. You never get guys all talking about ‘that time some moron accused me of being a pedophile’. Women have their ‘the time I almost got raped’ stories, but nobody wants to hear our stories about being falsely accused of being sex criminals.

[Emtar_KronJonDerSohn]

@Rand_Rover

You are so worried about looking like a child molester that you hesitated about even getting out of your car (!), didn’t simply grab the child to get her out the street, and didn’t do anything but stand there once the child walked by itself off the street. I think that if you were to have a healthier attitude about this whole thing, you’d have actually been able to help the child more effectively.
:rolleyes:

So your hypothetical is that I run out of my car and pick up the child and run out of the street and continue touching someone else’s child while I seek out the nearest house and see if anyone’s home.

The child is not killed in traffic.
What actually happened was that I hesitated for a second but still got out of my car, I shooed the child onto the sidewalk without touching her, scanned for a sibling or parent, kept her from getting back into traffic while I tried to get my phone that isn’t good at making calls to connect to the police, while I kept her from getting back into traffic (without touching her) until her mom appeared. There were no houses on this street, it is a main artery. Her mother came out of a commercial complex to claim her.

The child was not killed in traffic.

I don’t think you explained what else I could have done. I don’t touch strange children, I don’t want to be alone with strange children. I did a good deed and saved this girl’s life without touching her. If you have a handbook of univeral best practices I sure haven’t read it, and I don’t see how your Monday morning quarterbacking has any better outcome than what I did.

[Wesley_Clark]

Bill Burr .... Pedo Files

[Rand_Rover]

Mr. Accident, your story has nothing to do with what this thread was about. Someone saw a naked child running and screaming in your house. That has nothing to do with a man trying to help a strange child in danger.

You are actually just illustrating the point I made above–the whole idea of “I better not do anything even remotely close to something that could be perceived as pedo behavior around another kid” is a construct in your mind, which you believe is reinforced by an incident that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

[Rand_Rover]

@DrDeth

Thus, Emtar KronJonDerSohn is right, and Rand Rover is wrong.

:rolleyes:

What is it exactly that he is right about and I am wrong about? I’d like to see you fully state this in your own words, because I’m fairly certain you’ve missed my point.

[Rand_Rover]

@Emtar_KronJonDerSohn

So your hypothetical is that I run out of my car and pick up the child and run out of the street and continue touching someone else’s child while I seek out the nearest house and see if anyone’s home.

The child is not killed in traffic.
What actually happened was that I hesitated for a second but still got out of my car, I shooed the child onto the sidewalk without touching her, scanned for a sibling or parent, kept her from getting back into traffic while I tried to get my phone that isn’t good at making calls to connect to the police, while I kept her from getting back into traffic (without touching her) until her mom appeared. There were no houses on this street, it is a main artery. Her mother came out of a commercial complex to claim her.

The child was not killed in traffic.

I don’t think you explained what else I could have done. I don’t touch strange children, I don’t want to be alone with strange children. I did a good deed and saved this girl’s life without touching her. If you have a handbook of univeral best practices I sure haven’t read it, and I don’t see how your Monday morning quarterbacking has any better outcome than what I did.

Yes, THIS TIME, your method (involving much mental angst, dithering about, and general fucking around) did achieve the same result as my method (just help the damn kid and defend yourself if someone thinks you’re a pedo). In the long run, I think my method will be more effective.

[Rand_Rover]

@DrDeth

I had something similar happen to me:

I was walking down the street in Downtown San Jose, near the Federal Building. There was a mom talking on her cell, sitting on a fountain ring (which is no longer a fountain, but …) She wasn’t watching her kid. Said kid was playing on the light-rail tracks. Here comes the train. The driver is ringing his bell like a madman. I ran over, and grabbed the kid off the track. The look on the driver’s face as he was about to hit the kid will never leave my mind.

Mom is now looking (kid is crying), come over, and grabs kid. She takes kid by hand, runs over to Federal Policeman standing guard in building, and is pointing at me and yelling. I scram.

Thus, Emtar KronJonDerSohn is right, and Rand Rover is wrong. Despite my saving her kids life, and saving the driver from endless nitemares, I had to get out of there or I am sure I’d have been accused of something (I dont think the Mom actually saw me rescue the kid, just that I grabbed the kid by one arm). Later, I talked to some guys I know in the building, and the Mom was claiming someone had assaulted her kid (altho she didn’t speak much English so the story was quite garbled).

At the least I would have been arrested by a Federal Cop (and those FPS “cops” are very low on the totem pole, professionally wise, one step above a security guard). This would have entailed the loss of my job, and thousands in legal fees. Sure, if I had been able to find that driver, I’d be in the clear- after paying those legal fees, being suspended, having my picture in the paper, being ruined professionally, etc.

All because a Mom couldn’t be bothered to watch her kid. And because the media wants ad revenue thus it runs needless “scare stories” about random child molesters wandering the streets and “stranger danger”:rolleyes: (a hint- the danger is NOT from a stranger, it’s from someone the kid and the Mom knows and trusts).

Also, good Dr., your story here has the same elements as many other stories of this sort–very long on speculation of what could have happened and very short on any hard evidence that any of that would have happened. Do you really think that you would have lost your job simply because one woman accused you of being a pervert based on her having viewed you carrying her crying kid? Are you serious? Why are you giving no weight at all to the train conductor’s testimony in this little make-believe scenario you’ve cooked up?

By “San Jose,” you mean California, correct?

BOTTOM LINE PEOPLE: Just save the drowning kid or whatever. Don’t worry about baseless accusations from idiots. Don’t faff and dither about based on stories like those in this thread, where someone else believed they may have been thought of as a pedo with little to no actual evidence to that effect.