If that’s true, then I’m sorry to thear that. The Finns introduced the Sauna to the world, but have come so far from their roots now that they drink alcohol in it? That’s complelty contra-indicted. Not only does it directly work against the health benefits people are trying to achieve, it’s also a very high risk of death because of the passing out.
Somebody needs to chill out. [d&r]
Okay, I have three questions/observations about saunas:
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Given the intense heat, couldn’t using saunas and steam rooms pose a temporary threat to male fertility, by killing or damaging the spermatozoa in the testicles? Has anybody observed or studied the issue to determine if there’s a correlation? I was once told by an endocrinologist specializing in female-factor fertility, in the 1990’s, that in the U.S., one in seven couples trying to conceive were having significant difficulties doing so, and that in cases where male-factor infertility might be the problem, the men are usually told to wear boxers instead of briefs as a first step to remedy the problem. Perhaps there should be a warning: if you’re trying to conceive, keep “the boys” cool… and stay out of saunas!
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Might there be a small benefit derived from the use of birch twigs specifically – perhaps from inhaling fragrant volatile organic compounds (think of the uses of menthol derived from eucalyptus for a possibly similar phenomenon)?
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Muse frontman Matt Bellamy has stated that once he got high on magic mushrooms, then fell asleep in a sauna… and woke up completely deaf in one ear, which he attributed to the heat. Apparently, his hearing recovered after a day or so, because it hasn’t been mentioned since, and in concert he always wears earbuds in both ears. (But I’ve never come across an authoritative answer to this question – such as someone simply asking him if he’s still deaf in one ear.) Can anyone shed light on how exactly could one suffer heat-related deafness in one ear only, and recover afterwards? And assuming that Matt is hardly alone in his one-time recklessness WRT sauna use, shouldn’t there be other cases of drunken or high sauna users going deaf after falling asleep or passing out in saunas?
The steam rooms I use top out at about 116 degrees F. In general I found that in Asia the steam/sauna go to a higher temperature (probably partly cultural, partly liability).
The thing on boils sounded right (and gross). MRSA and similar nasty skin infections have been shown to spread in locker rooms, sports facilities, so I’m a bit leery of those. And finally, athlete’s foot/fungal infection are a real risk in these environments (as I unfortunately have learned a few times, but then I got athlete’s foot from a GD Four Seasons hotel shower too).
My club has a wet and a dry sauna. I like the wet one because it takes a while to build up a sweat in the dry one.I have no idea what the benefits are ,but i don’t se them as medicinal. They just feel good.
Well, I’m sorry, but the note that the Dope changed from ‘fighting ignorance’ to ‘bashing things we dislike’ must’ve gotten lost in the mail.
I guess I simply forgot to use American reasoning: because Americans are the only ones who matter, anything that’s too icky/weird/foreign for them can’t possibly have any value at all, and can thus be ignored or bashed.
You know, because I’m getting tired of this crap, I’ll tell you the Big Secret: all those thousands and thousands of Europeans who say the go to the Sauna and like it? We are all lying through our teeth in order to sucker the Americans into it (because everything is only about the Americans, of course), it really hurts like hell. But fortunatley, you were too wise and smart to fall for that, so your people can continue sitting in a hot whirlpool tub for several hours while drinking beer, which is a healthy American activity for Real Men and not slope-headed Europeans.
Cecil dealt with a hot bath here and said
I assume that’s 108 F= roughly 40 C, but remember that water is a far better carrier for heat than air, and if you sauna properly, the maximum is 20 min. in the hot room. (Longer than that is risky to your health. No, twice as long or strong is NOT twice as good, no matter how many of you believe the ad industry; rather it’s “the dosis is the poision”.)
First, why are couples going to an endocrinologist instead of an andrologist and gynecologist??? (BTW, statistics show that couples failing to receive, 1/3 it’s the guy, 1/3 it’s the woman, and 1/3 it’s both; yet anecdotal stories from the couple show them almost always going to the gynacelogist first. I guess because “it’s always the woman’s fault” and because most men don’t know that erection has zero to do with fertiliy - if all your seeds are duds, then it’s useless sowing them).
Second, I’m not an andrologist, but the first thing I’d expect a real doctor to do is to take a sample of the man’s sperm (since that’s much easier than testing the female) and look at mobility. (Why are doctors so hung up about underwear? It’s like the terrible clichee that the only advice a marriage counselor has is that the wife wear negligees and sexy underwear. Because all that’s wrong in a marriage is that the woman isn’t attractive enough anymore).
Third, do you honestly not see the difference between scrunching the testicules up tightly in briefs (and presumably tight jeans, too) for 10 or more hours a day while you wear pants, without air circulation to cool them; and 20 min. in a hot room with air and quick cooling down?
Fourth, the first advice I’d give to a guy with fertility problems is “Stop drinking and smoking” because alcohol and nicotine are very bad poisions for cells. Starting the right exercise and eating healthy would probably be more helpful than looking at underwear only.
Also, here’s Cecilon the general question about male fertility rates.
Sigh. Sauna is a preventive health measure, and as such, it’s done by people who are healthy, not by sick people. It’s like sports exercise: jogging is healthy, but if you have any illness or ongoing treatment for something, you ask your doctor beforehand if that activity is good for specially. The doctor will then say “Yes”, “Yes, but under these conditions…” or “No, not in your case, though generally good, but for you I’d recommend … instead”.
I don’t know, but I doubt it. Essential oils and fragrances are used for the “Aufguss” (pouring a cup of water onto the hot stones, where it turns into water vapor). I’m not a Finn, so I don’t know why, but of the top of my head, I can WAG:
- birches are the only leafy trees growing that far north in Finnland
- birch twigs are very supple, so they work best for lightly invigorating without hurting
- birch leaves have a place in folk medicine as a cure for rheumatic limbs, so maybe they figured ‘they’ll be good for Sauna, too’
- simply tradition from when the first sauna started
Well, he’s a stupid idiot who should be slapped on the head for that. He’s lucky he’s alive. Even if you have no Sauna culture in the US, and therefore, no trained attendants who watch, he should’ve taken a buddy in case something happened, just like you shouldn’t swim in the ocean alone. And you should never go into the Sauna while on drugs.
I’m not a Throat-Nose-Ear doctor, but my WAG is: when he passed out, he lost more fluid than what’s safe, so his blood thickened, which in his individual case, affected the inner ear with its fine, thin capillaries. Maybe something was blocked when the blood got thick, and dissolved once he upped his fluids again.
Of course, it could also be a side effect of the drugs, and not the sauna.
As for other people, I don’t know. Idiots who go without backup while drunk or high usually die or get severe damages, but there’s nothing that makes certain that the damages occur only/mostly at the ear, rather it’s a roulette where the damage will occur mostly/ strongly.
What do you mean with a “wet” sauna? A real sauna - the one that’s effective for your health - is 90 C and 10%.
A steam room is 45 to 55 C and 100% - water running down the walls. It’s also good, but for different conditions; people with bad circulation (like me) find the steam room far too stressful.
Are you doing it correctly when you go into the “hot” sauna? That is, do you know the Sauna rules and steps (and is the necessary equipment there)?
I wanted to post the correct Sauna rules, but I have to go right now, so maybe later.
Sauna Rules (as in how to properly for health benefit, not as in ‘mind your p and qs’)
What to take
- A big towel, fluffly absorbent terry-cloth, long enough to lie on
- a normal-sized fluffly towel to dry off
- soap
- plastic flip-flops/ sandals
- Plastic bottle with (mineral/tap) water or Schorle (= Apple juice and mineral water in 2:3 relation; doctors call this the cheap isotonic solution for hobby sportlers)
- optional: terry-cloth bathrobe
Don’t go if you
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are pregnant
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have high blood pressure
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any heart problems
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any kidney or water problems
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are starting a flu
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are in treatment or have other diseases,
without asking your doctor first -
if you’ve just stuffed yourself with a meal or have a completly empty (growling) stomach
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Never if you are drunk or high, and don’t drink alcohol in the Sauna, either!
Basically, the same rules you’d use before doing exercise
** One full cycle**
Step 0 (Cleaning): Take a warm shower and soap all the dirt and old sweat off. ** Dry off throughly: your skin has to be dry** otherwise, your own sweating will be delayed.
Step 1 (Heating up): Go into the hot room. Leave the plastic sandals outside. Put the big towel on the wooden bench and sit or lie down. A normal Sauna has at least three tiered benches; the highest ones are the hottest. As beginner, sit either on the lowest bench, or lie down on the middle bench.
The last two minutes, you should sit up again, so your blood doesn’t drop suddenly.
Time: 8 to 12 min. But: listen to your own body. You should feel the heat, your heart will accelerate und you will start to sweat, that’s natural. But if you feel bad, then leave earlier. This is not a place for misunderstood macho.
If there’s no attendant, you should have a buddy who keeps an eye on you.
Step 2 (Fresh air): If an outdoor room (shielded from looks) is availabe, go outside for a breath, while your lungs are still open and you can benefit from the oxygen.
Step 3 (Cool down): Take a cold shower, cleaning off the sweat. If available, and if you feel like it, use a gushing shower, a bucket or hose to cool down more. If available, use a dunking basin (a small pool big enough to dunk in with cold water), after you’ve cleaned yourself off (hygiene).
Important: finish this with a warm foot bath. Otherwise, if your feet are cold, your body would close the remaining heat, and you could keel over from overheating later.
Dry off thoroughly, your skin shouldn’t be wet. (You want your body to do the work of temp. regulation, but water from the shower interferes here.)
Step 4 (Rest) : Wrap in towel or bathrobe and lie down - there should be a different room with soft light and reclining chairs.
At least 15, usually 20 min. You should feel your heart slowing down to normal. Rest or do meditation. You shouldn’t read. If you fall asleep there, that’s no problem.
End of cycle. If you start the next one, you can stay in the hot room 15 to 20 min., but 20 min. is maximum of what’s healthy for you.
Drink your water best before or after one cycle. Don’t eat immediatly a big meal afterwards, because that ruins the effect a bit.
Swimming costumes: if the rules of your club prescribe them, then you have to wear them. They should be dry at least, as minimalistic as possible, and rinsed thoroughly so they don’t emit too much chlorine. If possible, always be naked (you can still cover your obscene parts like the face with the towel).
One cycle is minimum, more than three on one day are too exhausting and not useful anymore. (‘If one is good, double isn’t better’ - remember instead that ‘The dosis makes the poision!’)
You can bring children of any age (the Finnish women used to give birth in the Sauna), if they can behave without upsetting the other guests, and can keep to the rules.
At least once a week against colds.
I would be more inclined to think that this guy has any idea what he’s talking about if he would recommend something useful: changing from tight jeans/ pants with briefs to boxer with kilts or similar skirt/dress-like clothes. Because that would keep “the guys” air-cooled; but changing from briefs to boxers while continuing wearing tight pants, where no breeze can reach the guys, is more a gesture than really useful.
Well, most Finns lay down a small towel where they’ll sit and anyway take a proper shower before going to the sauna. Only very occasionally I’ve seen shy teenagers come in wrapped in a big towel.
However, in the old times sauna used to be the consider clean enough to deliver babies, take care of some other medical operations and so on. Wood as material is at least in some cases handled with heat and therefore ideal for sauna because it doesn’t absorb humidity and give food for bacteria -> it stays hygienic and it’s easy to clean. Anyhow the heat seems to have made saunas hygienic places even in the past. Isn’t boiling a way to make the bacteria die?
What comes to getting colds… Well, personally I’ve noticed that sauna can make you breath easier if you have a cold and your nose is… well, stuffed with something. I take the sauna often and the last time I had a flu was four years ago (there’s a reason why I remember). I don’t know if that’s thanks to the sauna, even though it’s obvious that nowadays that I take the sauna more often than before I catch the cold even more rarely than before.
Some public Finnish saunas do have tiles instead of wood, but personally I don’t like them. We don’t really have that kind of attendants, everyone is used to the saunas. The etiquette here concerns politely asking before you throw more water on the hot stones, but then again, many people are used to very hot saunas and don’t ask. Another etiquette is filling the sink with water for the others if you are about to leave the sauna and you’ve used all the water.
Sitting down without a towel under your butt is your own business and in the publics saunas most people prefer having one but no one will tell you it’s against the rules. For my skin the benches are usually way too hot so I really need a towel. If you’ve forgotten your towel you can throw some cool water on the bench before sitting down, but the water in the sink is often hot and doesn’t help.
Swimming costumes are not allowed for the bacteria, and in the swimming pool saunas also because of the substances used for keeping clean the swimming water. Every now and then someone “educates” those whose come in wearing a swimming suit. It is allowed if you have a speacial “sign” the suit (there’s some medical thing for what you can get it).
And yes, the sauna deaths occur in private saunas, when someone falls asleep for a long time in the sauna, possibly drunk but not necessarily. I’ve never seen people drinking in public saunas. Just imagine a glass bottle slipping from someone’s hand on the tile floor of a big public sauna… And anyhow, the classical saunabeer is one or two beers (or ciders), not a bottle of vodka. If you have sauna in a party, most of the drinking is done outside the sauna.
About fertility: at least Finnish men have excellent sperm compared to French, Danish and Scottish men, this is the result of some study on reproduction.
Whipping yourself with a “vihta” made of birch is supposed to be a massage like thing and stimulate the circulation. According to some sources birches are used because they contain beneficial substances that are soap like and do good for the skin. Birches are used not only because they are common but also because they have a very nice, mild profume. I don’t think rowan tree would be that nice (it grows also in Lapland).
In Finland having sauna is a common thing and a the tradition is long. I believe our type of sauna is quite common also in Estonia and Russia. It’s a pleasant tradition and we really don’t have too many conventions regulating how to do it.
Personally I like a simple sauna without profumes other than what comes from the birch leaves of the vihta, if there are any. I take a shorter sauna before going swimming (there are always saunas at the public indoor swimming pools) and a longer sauna after swimming. Some prefer having sauna only afterwards. And often only sauna for relaxation. I don’t like the cooling down -part, but many people like it. If it gets too hot, I take a short swim or more likely, a short shower (and not a cold one) and go back. For me dip in a cold pool (or cold natural water) is better than a cold shower.
Many pregnancies don’t prevent having sauna, you can see some big bellies seen in saunas. 
I also seems to depend on how many months pregnant you are. If you feel uncomfortable, you can always get out. If you try again another day and still feel uncomfortable, maybe your pregnancy doesn’t suit well with sauna. Sauna is supposed to be pleasant and relaxing, even though at times it has masochistic features (who stays the longest and in the highest temperatures).
In case someone is curious about our sauna: here’s a series of video clips, a documentary (divided in clips) with old and modern footage, mostly commented in English. Unfortunately the subtitles are missing in the parts in Finnish.
But a *small, shaved all over, skinny *guy is perfectly sanitary, eh?:rolleyes:
One covers more tilespace than the other, has more visible hair to leave behind, and is more effective at conjuring in the mind of the reader an experience equal to ones I’ve had.
Thanks for this list, Constanze. I have a question about one item on it:
Is that necessary? This was in Cecil’s column:
“They also…seem to lower blood pressure in those with hypertension,”
Well, first, high blood pressure is on all lists I’ve seen; Secondly, the heat of the hot room will raise your heart beat quite a lot, so if you start with high blood pressure already, you might reach dangerous levels.
It’s like with pregnancy: In the first few months, the embryo is sensitive to heat, and in the last several weeks, it might be too much stress. Also, in pregnancy is not a good time to start with saunaing the first time. But if you are used to saunaing, and your doctors says “Fine, go ahead”, then the heat will help you to relax your muscles (helping maybe with the birth later), and the contracting and sweating may help with the water retention that’s often a side effect of pregnancy. Still, pregnant women should sit close to the door and not overdo.
Like I said, it’s similar to exercise like jogging. Although regular sport is good for most diseases, including heart problems or high blood pressure, you have to ask your doctor first. Often, he will then tell you how to start slowly, so your body can get used to it, or recommend a similar activity that for you individually is better suited.
In the long term, Sauna like exercise helps with circulation and thus regulates pressure and strengthens the heart, but at the start, the stress is high, so you have to be careful and slow at first.
Oh, and Andrew, if you are interested in real Sauna culture, wikipedia says that there’s an area in Minnesota and around where the Finnish immigrants have kept their tradition alive.
Orava, people in Germany own less houses and rent much more (because of the cost), so most people go to Saunas in public swimming pools with “Saunameister” (trained attendants). They tell people to take off the swimming costumes, sit on a towel, and they do regularly the Aufguss (throwing water on the stones), often with scent/perfume / essential oils.
For me, the steam produced by an Aufguss is too strenous, so I always stay outside during it.
The dry sauna has a sign saying do not trow water on the heater. It takes a while to get a sweat up. Ten minutes is just a beginning sweat in that sauna.
The wet sauna has an automatic system where it kicks out steam through a couple jets every 5 minutes or so. it is very damp and very hot. it gets a sweat going in a minute and stays hot as hell. Ten minutes is a long time in that one.
Gonzo,
Wikipedia says that in the US, saunas are often a lower temp. for safety (??) reasons, and that water isn’t dumped on the heater. So how hot is the dry sauna? If you have taken a warm shower and towelled yourself dry, and don’t wear a wet bathing suit, then it should **not ** take 10 min. for sweat to start! Because I start sweating soon after I go inside.
As for automatic jets of steam - that’s dumb. What’s the use of that? Is the room tiled like a real steam bath? Would be better to either have a proper steam bath or a real sauna with a bucket of water and a laddle, than a half-assed mixture that doesn’t work the way the real thing would.
The wet sauna works very well. The steam coming out of the jet is uncomfortably hot if you sit too close. It is wet and the room is a fog of steam. It is quite warm.