This may have already been covered.
Does AA work? Why/Why not?
I think it works more as a group support thing than anything else. There’s probably no particular validity to the “12-step program”–it’s just easier to accomplish a task (like quitting drinking or losing weight) if you have the support of others trying to do the same thing.
It only works if youre willing to concede that there is a god/higher power. So, it might work for god-fearing folk, but certainly cant work for atheists.
It can work for an atheist who views the AA Group as his/her higher power.
Actually, AA can work for atheists. They generally tell you to take the group as your “higher power”.
It is extremely difficult to determine what “works” to help people get sober and stay that way. Statistics are extremely unreliable and/or biased, in my experience.
My general impression is that AA works as well as anything else, and better than most, but still not very well.
I am open to correction from anyone who knows better.
Regards,
Shodan
Why do you ask? If you think you have a problem, it certainly won’t hurt to go to AA.
People I know doubt that AAs stats are inflated, but don’t doubt that AA is a good program that has helped many people stop drinking for good.
There’s also something call Rational Recovery. I can’t vouch for it’s effectiveness, but it does seem to take the higher power concept out of the mix along with the notion that you’re an alchoholic for life.
Sure it can. The party line for AA is not that you believe in God, but that you ask for help. Those asking sincerely enough will usually find it one way or another.
Don’t believe me? Ask an atheist who is now sober. They’re out there.
Conceding to the existance of a “higher power” in and of itself implies the existance of god. Thus, any “atheists” that accept the group as their “higher power” must also accept the group as their god. The logical extension is that these folks claiming to be atheists are simply fooling themselves and might as well define themselves as a “non-practicing ‘religion X’” member. IMHO.
I addressed this issue pretty extensively with GQish answers in a MPSIMS thread.
The answer is no. It does not work. Studies have shown that the rate of recovery among participants in AA is pretty much equivalent to the rate of spontaneous recovery (i.e. people quitting with no external help).
Unfortunately, however, the only studies we have to go by are those done by people who were coerced into AA through court programs, because, as I said in the other thread:
Nope.
That’s how you define higher power. You’re assuming everyone else defines it the same way. How about as community strength? Or as higher than your biological desires? Or as a higher standard for your actions? Or as society? I could think of all of these as a higher power in a non-theistic way, and I could also see them as helpful in recovery.
Don’t try to box people into your own definition of a term, then say they are deluding themselves by boxing themselves in that way.
In a program that touts anonymity as its prime feature, what evidence would you collect?
There are certainly ways to conduct studies without broadcasting the participants names over a loudspeaker for the world to hear, aren’t there?
This is not true. I’ve will not had a drink for 22 years next October 11. I don’t have a higher power and never did. I don’t credit any supernatural force of entity of any kind with my sobriety. In my case, it was having the support of others who were trying to quit and of being tired of sneaking around and making excuses.
My experience is that there is a group of people who regularly attend meetings, another and larger group who circulate in between drinking episodes, and a small group, like me who get and stay sober and only go to meetings on rare occasions.
Yes there are, but these ways require that participants give consent to be tracked, or can be tracked in a non-intrusive but ethical manner. Being that AA members don’t usually sign in anywhere, and that there is no roll call, and that participants’ progress is not documented, and that participants sometimes lie, I’d be hard pressed to come up with a protocol that would give any meaningful data.
Unless members were offered the chance to voluntarily participate in a controlled and anonymous study. Which may very well have happened. But even that would have some component of a sort of uncertainty principle, being that participants may be encouraged to do better if they know they are being tracked.
Amusing anecdote: I once dated a woman that was sober for 7 years, and occasionally attended meetings. She strongly believed in meetings, and they were a great help to her. And she had absolutely no belief in God. She rejected religion in all its forms, and had great contempt for it.
Then again, she believed in ghosts, aliens, tarotry, past lives, healing crystals, and Santa Claus. So I guess the point is moot.
I don’t believe it is possible to have a GQ factual answer for this.
The 12 steps work for some people but not for everyone. AA & NA certainly don’t work for people who are court ordered to attend and believe they don’t have a problem and have no desire to stop drinking/using drugs. I’ve been clean & sober for over 9 years using the 12 steps of AA & NA. By working the steps thoroughly and conscientously, you learn to understand why you drink/use drugs and address those underlying issues. I attended meetings several times a week my first few years in recovery. I attend rarely now, maybe an average of once a month, but I do work the 12 steps.
The 12-step programs work for people who have found themselves unable to stay sober on their own. Yes, you do need to accept that there is some power greater than yourself that will enable you to stay clean when you are thoroughly convinced you can’t do it alone. Maybe I am lying to myself, but life is much better than when I was using drugs every day.
My lifeline is AA.
I have a wonderful family and life, and no excuse to be an alcoholic. But I am.
I can’t understand how any studies can show what percentage of people who have attended AA meetings are still sober.
No one has ever phoned me to ask. (Good.)
God, it’s AA!
The second A for Anonymous.
While I welcome the relief for the small percentage of court-ordered people who find sobriety through attendance, the fact that they must have “court slips” signed is a problem for me.
It means that our meetings are invaded by people who do not want to be there, and who have no reason to protect our anonymity, and who often attend impaired.
I have no solution. If even one out of a hundred are able to use our program to achieve sobriety, does that make ithe risks worthwhile?
I don’t know. I just know that it makes it just that much harder for me.
I think most atheists would be better served by a recovery group like LifeRing Secular Support or Rational Recovery. Some atheists have used AA to help recover, but for others it requires a certain mental gymnastics that is really not very productive when you have other larger issues in your life (quitting drinking).
While AA maintains that your Higher Power could be anything-- even a doorknob, most atheists would be uncomfortable turning their sobriety over to a doorknob or to an equally ridiculous (for them) entity such as a god.
Correction: it is LifeRing Secular Recovery
And here is the link for Rational Recovery
I post these links because while an AA meeting can be found just about anywhere, people looking for a secular alterative often have a hard time finding one. These websites are a good place to start.