Does America Still Have Any Optimism?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve worked with many Americans. I’ve visited the country many times, but it is an expansive place and I have not seen very much of it. Americans travelling in other countries, Americans at home, Americans at work… are often very social and talkative. Very open by Canadian standards. And, on the whole, they generally seemed to be quite optimistic.

Is this still a thing? I still see the US as a place of great potential. But a lot of Americans apparently think the country is no longer on the right track. Some recent events have been disturbing, cynicism is widespread and Covid did not lighten many moods. The news tends to report the negative; social media finds drama more clickworthy than positivity.

Is America still an optimistic country? It is not ultimately fully defined by its social media or even its politics. If it is not, what would it take for its return?

2

I think so. In fact, I think that the agitation about the country’s track, the current events, and the tension is more of a tacit statement of optimism than anything else- it implies that people on both sides want change (albeit very different changes), and that’s a statement of hope right there- people don’t get all het up about stuff they don’t feel can be changed. Instead, they just grumble and hide.

I think there’s a very pervasive feeling of dismay on the part of anyone not on the pretty far right- a lot of what that side is doing is essentially trying to turn back the clock on decades of progress on social issues, for the sake of pandering to a frankly ignorant set of voters. It’s astoundingly, unnervingly cynical, and it plays those people for fools, IMO. But they’re happy to go along with it, because they’ve been convinced that their way of life is being threatened.

So everything about that side is just disturbing, and dismaying because it’s so out of the pale. And nobody sane knows how you counter it either. But there’s hope that we can, or that demographic changes in the country will take care of it regardless of what they believe.

3

There is a pretty large divide these days. Left/Right, Rural/Urban, Democrat/Republican, Progressive/Liberal/Conservative/Ultra-Conservative, etc etc. The country seems to be going through one of our periodic reassessment and inward-looking periods. It hasn’t helped that many of the sides see the other as the enemy…not as political (or whatever) rivals, but as the enemy, and evil.

That said, my thought is…we’ve been here before. We had a similar time of strife in my lifetime, and historically we get these every few decades. I actually think it’s healthy, in the long run, for the US to do this sort of stuff, to reaffirm our national stance on things and to keep the nation grounded in what the people want. So, yeah…I still think America is an optimistic country, and I’m certainly still optimistic. We are going through a rough patch right now, again, as we have many times, but this too shall pass.

Also, you have to understand that while a lot of the more radical elements on whatever side we are talking about are all gloom and doom and the other side is evil, blah blah blah, that most Americans aren’t dwelling on this continuously. The fringes are where you get the most pessimism and the most blowback against the other side…for most Americans, their current outlook probably is a bit gloomy, but most don’t think the sky is falling and the Country is going down, or needs a civil war, or hopes the other side will die or be killed or whatever loopy stuff the fringe is pushing.

What will it take for us to return to something like normalcy? Time would be my first thought. Right now, even leaving aside the US’s various issues, the world itself is going through some massive issues, and those impact the US as well, so it’s not just the US that needs some stability and an easing of tensions. I think in 10 years or so they will look back on this period as another of the turbulent and periodic periods such as the 60’s, just another time when we collectively were re-establishing what the Country is and what we collectively want it to be going forward.

Hopefully, this is the last one of these I have to go through…one was enough for me, even though I was a kid then.

4

I’d say the opposite of optimism is surrender. As nutty as junk is right now, I don’t see anybody looking for a white flag. We’re optimistic as fuck and willing to black each other’s eyes to make the point. As long as there’s a fight, there is hope.

5

I just read an old book which quoted a 2001 article from USA Today saying 89% of Americans felt that civility was at an all time low. Good news! That was twenty years ago!

6

The really funny thing, to me, is that I bet most generations think the same thing. I recall debates from years ago on the SDMB talking about how political discourse had gotten to an all-time low. I busted out laughing when I saw that, thinking back to some of the discourse in the early days of the US when folks would call each other all sorts of really over the top names ('blind, bald, crippled, toothless man who is a hideous hermaphroditic character with neither the force and fitness of a man nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman" always springs to mind…and this was just the tip of the iceberg :stuck_out_tongue: ) or actually got into fistfights or beat each other with canes…or fought duels.

People always think that what they see happening around them is the worst that’s ever been or some sort of new low for their country or whatever, and that’s because they really don’t know much history and have no way to put their time into context. Today is a perfect example of that, IMHO.

7

The book also talked about Trump in a 2001 (say) TV interview with (I think) Larry King. First thing Trump said: “Do you mind if I sit a bit further back? Because your breath is really bad. Has anyone ever told you that? No? Okay, I won’t bother.” Presidential! (He later claimed he was demonstrating how to negotiate.)

8

Yeah, he was showing his early potential to be good-quality presidential material. :stuck_out_tongue:

I watched Die Hard II the other night and was struck by one scene where a 9/11 dispatcher says something like ‘yeah, and I am going to marry Donald Trump!’ in response to something very unlikely to happen. I had totally forgotten that line.

9

Well, that’s the thing about “All time lows”; there’s usually still room to go even lower. Well, I guess, at least until we reach the point where you just do you best to kill other humans on sight, regardless of who they are.

10

I agree with the above posters. The US is going through one of it’s molts where we emerge a somewhat different culture. One thing that is different this time is that for the first time in more than a hundred years, the US isn’t the dominant industrial and economic force in the world-and now realizes it. While the reality is that the US hasn’t always been the dominant economic and social power we thought of ourselves as, this time we realize it. 20 or 50 years ago we worried about the military might of Germany or the USSR or economic power of Japan or the oil power of the mid-east, in terms of global influence in any sphere the US thought of themselves as unchallenged. Now we realize that we aren’t as important as we thought we were. That is going to be unsettling to a lot of Americans. It will also be a good thing for everyone.

11

From what I gathered, many started off as mostly poor farmers, and then moved to cities to find employment in manufacturing. After skills increased, more moved to services while more of manufacturing was outsourced. And with more automation that plus agriculture became mechanized.

But even that was not enough: to avoid another world war plus take advantage of its intact manufacturing and resources, it embarked on global domination by allowing the dollar to be used as a reserve currency, and then using that for increased spending. As economic growth slowed down, it began to spend even more, especially for a military needed to control other countries. In time, that use of the dollar as a reserve currency led to chronic trade deficits, and to maintain spending, increasing levels of debt. Throughout consumption per capita of resources and energy has been significant.

Likely the basis of optimism throughout has been materialism, or the idea that the country is great because it has lots of money and things to buy and services to spend on. Coupled with that are feelings of self-entitlement and narcissism, both part of exceptionalism, or the belief that the country and its people are special and that others must learn from and obey it.

In time, limits to growth, the effects of pollution and global warming, and blowback and other effects of perpetual conflict will take their toll, probably leading to a major decrease in resource and energy consumption, and eventually the demise of middle class conveniences. With that, any optimism will likely refer to the hope of less suffering and conflict.

12

The biggest sign of optimism in America is that we keep changing Presidents between parties. People didn’t like the direction of the country under George W. Bush, so we switched to Obama. When we didn’t like the direction under Obama, we switched to Trump. When we didn’t like the direction under Trump, we switched to Biden. Of course, some people liked each of these presidents (and our direction) and some didn’t, but the bottom line is that we keep trying to get it right. To me that’s a sign of optimism, that things can be fixed if we just elect the right people.

“Make America Great Again” and “Build Back Better” are both optimistic slogans that speak to the idea that the future can be better than the past if we work to improve it. The conflict is ugly, but both sides believe that it’s possible for the country to have a bright future.

13

“Make America Great Again” is just a racist slogan. Well, it brought all the racists into the tent anyway.

“Build Back Better” is a message of hope.

14

I thought it was relevant that the woman was Black.

Also, I remember it as Die Hard 3, but I might be wrong.

15

The best indicator of optimism was once said to be the length of clothing for women. That’s probably out of date - now it could be the length of the buffet at Sizzler or the line at the local hotspot tavern?

16

Is a response of “I doubt it” definitive?
(Somebody hadda say it!)

17

Well, how optimistic are you about your answer?

18

Is this decline in optimism happening in other developed nations or just the US?

19

That’s a good question regarding other countries. I’m curious as well.

Personally, I’m optimistic that the generations soon to dominate most facets of American affairs will not succumb to the inertia and toxic traditionalism that has plagued us for decades.

20

In the UK, anyone watching the news and seeing reports of children being stabbed by children, thousand reported as not having enough money to buy food for their families, and on and on, would be excused for feeling pessimistic.

On the other hand, seeing a quarter of a million students marching through the streets of Glasgow, with no one being shot or even arrested, is inspiring. Students are our future so maybe this lot will do better.

All around the world, bad news sells better than good.