You didn’t insult me. I found it funny.
I did not intend to put across that I think anything you said is right. It also doesn’t really happen like you have described. Reading back over what I wrote last night I can see where you got that opinion though. That’s my mistake not yours.
I’ve met up with a lot of traveling SDMB Americans and I don’t think that any would say I or anyone else carried on like you describe.
It occurred to me today that maybe there’s a generation gap for anti-Americanism. I’m only 23, so perhaps that has a large impact on the way (1) I view it, and (2) the way people view me.
…and I have class right now. I can’t really elaborate on it for the moment, but I’m interested in what people think. My generation is the first generation, I believe, that has seen almost the entire world connected with internet, chat, webcams, etc. etc. etc. It makes the world a lot smaller, and people seem a lot less different. News from all over the world is instant, and numerous sources from numerous countries are a click away.
gotta go…
Actually, that was by Gitfiddle, wasn’t it?
Being serious doesn’t mean we get angry and attack people. It does mean that we take ourselves seriously; we have a standard emotional state neithjer jocular or angry.
This is another area where America != other countries, though as usual was have some similarities. America is a halfway nation. Because of constant immigration, we are not really any one people or nation; we are a Super-Nationality. How, then, can we possibly hold ourselves together? How can America be America?
Because America is not like England or France or Germany. America is an idea, not a people or a place. Take the idea of America to the moon, and the moon-people will be Americans. It could be called something else, but America it would be. If people stop believing in it, the whole thing vanishes tommorow. We are a successful version of the Soviet Union: peoples united not by accident of birth but by Belief itself.
It is said that Europeans often have a sneaking suspicion that America is a religion masquerading as a country. That’s closer to the truth that even they know. America is not an identity, or a nation, or a landmass: it’s a Dream.
I actually agree to a very large extent with that, but I also believe that some people try to hijack the idea of what America is, as though it had a limited and quantifiable form.
Or maybe I have, in thinking that it’s indefinable…
I’m really going to class this time…
If it’s spirited politicall talk, then yes, one can attempt an engagement of debate (though this gets tiring, and no one really changes their minds, anyway).
But if it’s pure insult, then there’s no point debating.
I think you line about “both come out with a better outlook in the end” is a little idealistic, at least if you consider that to be a goal of immediate post-insult communication. Now then, over time (usually lots of time), outlooks can and do change. But I don’t think someone from (anywhere in) Europe should expect to change a conservative American’s viewpoint right after that American has stepped off the plane … and the European really shouldn’t expect to browbeat or embarrass the American into a summary change of worldview.
Actually, (I’m 24) it’s made me think people are more different than I imagined before. We may look alike and we may have the same needs, but we don’t act or respond the same way. Not only are we individuals, but culture plays a big part in how we adapt.
I used to think Europeans and their governments were a lot like ours. As time has gone on, I’ve realized that’s not true at all. They’re far more different than I could accept before. And they’re not very similar to each other, either: much politics happens behind the curtains, and that doesn’t work the same for each country.
[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
Because America is not like England or France or Germany. QUOTE]
No, those are countries. America is a continent. Perhaps you meant the United States of America? 
A completely subjective experience here but; I went to Paris two years ago and really thought I would be knee deep in anti-American feelings. But I got to say I had a great time there. Everyone I met or talked to was very nice and polite, and we even meet a couple from Denmark that we had dinner with a couple nights.
I never once got the feeling I wasn’t “wanted”. Nobody even remarked on the fact I was American, except for the occasional “Oh, your American” comments.
Strange as it sounds I was 33 and it was my first time out of the country. I really wish I hadn’t waited so long. I had such a narrow view of what I thought Europe would be like, and I was way wrong on all counts. One thing I did notice, and again its all anecdotal, was that people in and around Paris sure do seem short! Im 6’3 not real tall, but around there I felt like a freaking giant! I was ducking thru doorways, bending under signs…was strange.
Dude, that’s the best way to make baked beans! You don’t know what you are missing…
[QUOTE=Leaffan]
No, to most of the world North America is a continent, and America is, colloquially, a country.
I think that’s an example of (to borrow an imperfectly remembered phrase I encountered on these boards recently) a victory by definition. In other words, if you’re going to define anti-Americanism as being “completely against” everything that is American and every American citizen, to the extent (as you alluded to in another post) that you won’t even talk to Americans, then yes, there are very, very few anti-Americans anywhere. But that’s an extremely narrow definition – heck, by that definition, most of the 9/11 hijackers probably wouldn’t qualify as being completely anti-American, since there were probably some things they liked about the place, and some Americans they got to know. So really, that definition isn’t practically useful.
Careful fella. I wouldn’t want to have to brain you with a plate of poutine.
Ooooh, Brainglutton, watch it! You can fill potholes with poutine when it’s more than five minutes old, to judge from my sticky and unsatisfying experience on the Halifax waterfront this summer.
What?
Since the only furrin country I’ve been to lately is Canada, all I can report was some personal antithesis towards Dubya, but otherwise fine. Not even a nasty bumper sticker.
Although, the days of empires have past, when they did exist, I consider myself pro-empire. I may question many of the methods they used for control and assimilation, but on balance, I believe they did more good for civilization than harm. So, my stance is: former empires were good; America, as a superpower today, is even better.
Some people in this thread belittle American patriotism, and that bothers me, somewhat. I don’t equate our patriotism with nationalism – particularly European type nationalism, which, to me exemplifies xenophobia to a high degree. I do agree with the tenet that America is not so much a person, place or thing, but rather an idea - better still, a dream of an ideal democracy. Although it has become a much bantered about cliché, America really is the melting pot of the world and that imbues us with more tolerance than countries that aren’t melting pots. We are a big country with a large population, so you will, of course, be able to cite isolated examples of bigotry and intolerance. But, I assure you that the problem is not as ubiquitous as the media portrays it to be and it is certainly not state sanctioned (which in some countries, it is). And, even when prejudice does rear its ugly head in the USA, it’s more…well, democratic than in other countries. American bias can be white v. black v. oriental v. Spanish, v. Muslim v. Christian v. Jewish…and so on and so forth; or visa versa; or any combination thereof. If they are citizens of the United States, they are all Americans. We really don’t care where you came from or who your mama is, if you behave yourself you can be one of us. You can speak any language you want, so long as you can figure out a 1040 tax form and pay Uncle Sam your due. :dubious:
My brother, who travels to the UK quite often, tells me that they have airport personnel at Heathrow airport who direct pre-boarding passengers to security lines by pointing to the lines that the individual travelers should get into. One line always seems to move quite a bit slower than the other line. The fast line demographic: quite white and rather Anglican; the slow line demographic: not quite as white and less likely to enjoy crumpets and a spot of tea. If we attempted that sort of profiling in this country, *“foul” *would be charged against us in a New York minute: first by the American Left, second by France. (France would most likely attempt to punish us by…I dunno…forbidding our military aircraft to fly over their airspace…again? And, England simply wishes it could coerce us by taxing our tea and stamps again ). America is tolerant and committed to justice to the point of weakening our national security. We should profile, but we don’t. Other countries just do it, and aren’t taken to task for it.
France, desiring a source of cheap labor, magnanimously invites Muslims into their country with open arms. However, they forbid them from speaking in their native tongue (Americanized French words are particularly verboten), they forbid Muslim women from wearing veils, they don’t really want Muslims to live near other French people and they don’t want Muslims to take any but the most menial of jobs. Somehow that does not strike me as being toleration incarnate. France can talk the talk, but they often fail to walk the walk. France willingly accepts immigrants…as long as they are French
Cheap shots: America was raked over the coals for being a cheapskate with regard to the Tsunami relief effort. It’s true that many countries pledged more money than did America. On paper, America didn’t look so hot with the amount that it pledged compared to other countries. However, we look a great deal better when you realize which countries actually made good on their pledges – the US followed through on its pledge (indeed, Japan pledged a lot and followed through with their pledges, so they deserve a tip of the hat, too). Then, when you factor in contributions from private citizens of the USA, we look pretty good, indeed, when compared to the rest of the world.
The fact is, America meddles in the affairs of other countries for two reasons:
Take the combined military might of all Europe, and add to that a big chunk of the rest of the world’s military power, then put it up against the US military machine. Who do you think will win that war? (Hint: it won’t be close, and the victors will be humming Yankee Doodle Dandy). Yes, war is ugly and it is bad, but sometimes it is still necessary for the stability of the world. The human race has not evolved to the point where conflict can be taken out of the human equation. Sure, it would be nice to take all the assets out of our military war chest and siphon them into all the social services that many Europeans now enjoy as entitlements, but it would not be prudent for us to do so – somebody has to do the wet work.
The question is really two-fold:
IMO, the answer to # 1 is “yes”: progress and stability result from the influence and control of a tolerant global power hierarchy. My answer to #2 is a “resounding yes”: almost any other country that could exert as much control and influence over the rest of the world as does the United States, would do so in a heartbeat - but, at this point in time, they can’t, so they won’t…and we are lucky they can’t. Many countries have been in our position of power in the past, and many of them mourn the loss of that power. Even though America does what it does primarily for its own best interest, America’s best interest, for the most part, is in the best interest of the rest of the world. We should all thank our lucky stars (and stripes) that America is the superpower of the world today and not another sovereignty. America is uniquely tolerant of diversity and it takes to heart the tenet, “liberty and justice for all.”
I think that I speak for most Americans when I say that we understand many foreign county frustrations with many of our government’s policies (heck, even Americans are divided on most issues), and, having a good sense of humor, we enjoy being ridiculed and lam basted as much as the next county (it goes with the territory, particularly when you are in a position of power). But, when the anti-Americanism gets excessive and vicious, it really pushes the envelope of ungratefulness and shortsightedness. Americans like foreigners. Really, we do. We also like out pets. Go figure.
Bravo, Tibbycat!
I sometimes have the feeling that the English speaking world do not understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism.
Henry
Yes, you can win any war, but not peace. Not even in a country that had a brutal dictator. And the reason is not the army, but extremely stupid administration.
“Progress and stability” ???
You have to be joking!
“Progress and Stability” - my ass. USA is now steaming with almost all its power to a check-mate position, taking us others with them.
Down the drain, that is.
Your army is out-strained, those that obeyed you for so long, is now knowing your position. (Look south). Just because some ignorant people believed all the shit about terrorists being in the only country in ME where they were not.
Putin and his gang is laughing in Kremlin so hard, that they have to change their pants twice a day.
Do not think that we hate you. We know very well that we can’t survive the hug of “those other friends”. Sorry to say: Neither will you.
Henry
Vast amounts of the world disagree with almost every aspect of the current American administration’s foreign policy.
Lots of people still disagree with America’s foreign policy for the whole of the 20th century…not joining WW2 until you were attacked, Hiroshima, Vietnam, dirty dealings in South America etc.
Lots of people around the world find American culture unpleasant, and interpret American patriotism as jingoism and colonialism of the worst kind. Many people do NOT feel that America has a duty, or a right to interfere in their country, simply because it is the richest country in the world.
Many people find the majority of Americans they have met to be loud, ignorant, thin-skinned, neurotic and unable to accept defeat in any argument. Yet many people find individual Americans to be charming, caring, polite and friendly.
Basically Tibbycat’s post exemplifies why some people dislike the USA. They DON’T feel that America being in charge is a good thing, they don’t want them to continue to be in control and they resent the fact that they are. They feel that the USA has spent long enough ruling the rest of the world selfishly, and that it’s time for them to step back, because everyone deserves freedom and democracy and that includes freedom from America and the ability to democratically elect whomever THEY choose, not whomever America wants them to choose.
I would never live or work in America, simply because I couldn’t deal with being around Americans and immersed in American culture. It has no appeal for me.
As individuals, Americans are just like everyone else, as a country, a culture, a group, I’d prefer to keep my distance.
But then, I’m not going to move to Australia, Canada or Saudi Arabia any time soon either.
I’m glad someone agrees with me! 
There are all types of accents within both of our countries. Perhaps it takes more of a trained ear to pick them out?
I can definitely tell an American voice from a Canadian voice any day.
Case in point, the famous Canadian: “No doot aboot it!” for “No doubt about it!”
Then there’s the Easterners (Nova Scotians and Capers) don’t get me started on their crazy accents! hahaha
Amen. I don’t want to argue the intentions of the American government. But they have no right - except the fact that they are too powerful for anyone to really mess with; might equals right - to interfere in the affairs of other independent countries. The parent-child analogy made by Tibbycat still makes me shake my head in disbelief.