I’m all for any age related restrictions lifted, across the board, all over the country. If my kid drinks himself to death at the age of … whatever, say fifteen, then I’d either blame myself for not teaching him how to be a reasonable drinker or just face the fact the my kid was an idiot. Why do parents expect the government to do their job, especially when every kid is different. No age will apply to everybody, there isn’t even a narrow span. I know forty year olds who shouldn’t have a drink of anything, and sixteen year olds who can handle their liquor and drink responsibly.
That used to be the case in Kansas. Maybe other states, too. And from firsthand experience I can tell you that any gradual introduction that took place didn’t do a damned thing to cut down on rampant stupidity.
Too, there were a helluva lot of eighteen year olds from Missouri who expanded their own stupiditynessism simply by driving across the state line.
Hear, here. We have two supermarket grocery stores within a 40-mile radius, Econo Foods and Pic-N-Save. Pic-N-Screw has a policy to card EVERYONE, even 85-year-old whitehaired ladies. They relaxed it a bit once, to just asking what your birthdate was, but some company bigwig from somewhere else came by once and saw what he thought was a serious breach of protocol, so they went back to the no-ID, no-alchohol policy.
As I don’t look like someone under 21 in the slightest, and I don’t carry an ID at all times, I don’t shop there; I go to the other store where reason reigns.
Or (since alot of people are afraid 18 yr old high school students will buy for underclassmen) we could do what the Swedes do; 18 to drink in a bar, 21 to buy alcohol in a shop.
Well, actually, when I was a kid (younger than 10, don’t remember the exact age), we started with wine. A little bit, mixed with water, at sit-down family meals. And yes, I did learn to appreciate a nice glass of Chardonnay. I was drinking wine for about ten or fifteen years before I moved on to try beer and cider. To date, neither my parents nor I are alcoholics.
The thing I’ve noticed is that having a high drinking age only encourages people under that age to get someone else to buy their alcohol for them.
If they’re lucky, it’s an older brother or sister, or maybe their parents, but if they’re not, then it’s the Older Friend™, which is just asking for all sorts of trouble…
I just wish that bars here would let me in. I’m in a college town and the bar scene is huge. All of my friends are 21. I am 20. So I get left out when everyone wants to go to the bars. It sucks. I’d rather go to a bar and not be able to drink than not go to the bar at all. I know that bars let 19+ in at bars up in Iowa where my friend’s twin brother goes to school. That would be nice. I don’t mind big X’s on my hands, get them at concerts often.
And I’d love to be able to buy beer, damnit. I hate asking my roommate to do it for me. I’ve been drinking since I was 15 and have figured out my limits. And I don’t drive drunk. My roommate and I switch sober driving if we go out together, otherwise we sleep on someone’s couch. Unfortunately, a lot of people my age don’t do these things. It just sucks for the responsible ones. I’ve gotten dizzy puke drunk a number of times and it sucks ass and I hate it. But I like to enjoy some beers now and then.
And IIRC, my mom was one of those stupid kids who drove from MO to IL to get booze. From our house (she grew up a couple streets over) at least it wasn’t THAT far, but still not smart. We are about 20 mins to Alton, IL.
I don’t know about France, but when I was in Germany, I can tell you they love their excessive binge drinking. So do the Irish, English and Austrailians.
People don’t drink to excess because it’s cool and forbidden. They drink because they’re bored, it provides a nice social crutch and it’s a common social activity.
One of my high school teachers talked about this. She grew up in England and said that people were introduced to alcohol early and that it was considered embarrassing and shameful to get really drunk (a la frat boy).
Yes, about this. “Dry” areas bug me more than anything. One town in Arkansas has three major colleges in it, and is dry. Do you think that reduces drinking and/or drinking and driving? No, it increases the incidents of drunk college students driving thirty miles to get more beer. I think dry towns/counties should be illegal.
It seems like everyone but msmith thinks the drinking age is destructive, so who is behind this crackdown on carding? Does MADD have that much power?
Why do people think fraternities have cornered the market on excessive drinking?
Apparently your high school teacher never saw a bunch of Brits on holiday in Amsterdam.
Well it’s an easy sell when some drunk kills a bunch of people by running a red light.
I don’t believe the drinking age is destructive. At worst it’s arbitrary and has a neutral effect. I also believe that drinking age has nothing to do with people learning how to drink responsibly. In my college experience, alchohol was freely available to students of any age. Anyone could go to any fraternity party and drink as much as they like for free. Other than going to the handful of bars off campus, you didn’t miss out on much by being under 21. The reason people abused alchohol wasn’t because they weren’t ever exposed to it before but because of the culture of excessive drinking and partying on campus.
Another thing I want to point out is that alchohol abuse tends to be progressive. So one might argue that if you start drinking at 18 instead of 21, you will have three additional years to progress in your abuse.
Alternately, one might argue that alcohol abuse tends to be progressive for people inclined to abuse alcohol. Most people have a few years of figuring out their limits, and figuring out that vomiting isn’t really an enjoyable activity. So one might also argue that if you start drinking at 18, you’ll have gotten the *stupid * drinking mostly out of your system by 21.
I should mention that I’m not *for * kids drinking. But the 21 drinking age is one of those laws that doesn’t serve any real purpose other than to turn average people into lawbreakers. I also appreciate the irony of the fact that any 16 year old knows that it’s actually far easier to stroll down to the park and pick up something that’s illegal for *everyone * than it is to find someone to buy booze for you.
I have the impression that there was a time in certain places (Victorian London, perhaps?) when you could see 6-10 year old alcoholics on the street. Were they all idiots or were they just too young to be introduced to alcohol?
It seems to me that it’s your friends who suck if their decision is to just leave you outside the bar. There are plenty of other options for people who want to spend time with their friends.
There are a lot of worse suckages in the world than having to wait one more year before you can buy beer. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for 18-21 year olds who think that they’re suffering some kind of major deprivation because of the alcohol laws. You’ll be 21 soon enough. Meanwhile, there’s plenty of other things to occupy your time.
I don’t think there should be a legal drinking age. Making it illegal for minors to drink is a big part of the patina of wild-n-crazy and/or sophisticated that’s all wrapped around the consumption of alcoholic beverages in this culture.
I don’t believe that countries where 10 year olds can order a beer in a restaurant are rife with 10 year old alcoholics.
I’m right there with you. I don’t belive for one minute that I could get away with serving my son a couple of beers at home. I’d be considered a delinquent mother. If I served his friend one, I’d be contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
My understanding – and I’ve been through the class you have to take to sell the stuff in this state – is that due to a few loopholes left in the laws when the age was raised from 18 to 21 here, technically, it is perfectly legal to buy a glass of wine for your 18-year-old at a restaurant. However, pretty much nobody will do it, because of fear of Bad Things happening afterwards and huge lawsuits ensuing.
Your state may well differ. Louisiana law is weird sometimes.
In regards to parents serving their kids alcohol, http://www.youthrights.org/dastatelist.shtml The site overall probably is biased, but the list does have links to the relevant state laws. Not all states have data included.
It seems to vary by state, some states have the under 21 means no drinks at all, others allow a legal guardian to serve a minor in their home only and others allow a legal guardian to buy drinks for a minor outside the home.
Harrumph.
Actually, at dinner last night, I asked the in-laws if they had ever heard this, and they said something along the lines of “you can do whatever you want in your own home!” :rolleyes: But I noticed my lawyer brother-in-law said nothing (which means he doesn’t know, being in another field of law altogether).
We were raving about the wine, and WhyKid sniffed it and made a face. I told him he could have a sip of mine, but he declined and ordered another Sprite.
I ask ya, what’s the world coming to these days when a mother can’t corrupt her own kid? 
Find me a developed country where 10 year olds can legally drink.
I think it might have to do with the media portrayal of excessive drinking as fun, sexy, funny and exciting.
Let’s face it, we do present a mixed message in this country when it comes to alchohol consumption and drug use. On the one hand, you have this serious message of alchohol and drugs causing health problems andleading to violent, self destructive and otherwise anti-social behavior. On the other hand, you have this image of the college fraternity party / beer commercial lifestyle with nothing but good times and no consequences.
Heh, sounds just like something my SO’s mom would say.
I’ve always said I would support a drinking age of 18, the comments about schools here make me think that 19 might be better. I admit I had never considered that aspect of it (18 year old seniors buying it for the freshman etc) but it does make sense. I would also support allowing a legal guardian to serve drinks to their own minor children in the home.
I would consider China to be a developed country at this point.
When I was a visitor to Germany in 1972 or '73, I was able to order beer and no questions were asked. I was 13, not 10. I saw kids younger than 10 drinking beer though. I’m sure Germany had (and has) alcoholics, but it didn’t seem to be a pervasive problem.
(They do seem to have changed their rules though…?)