Does anyone actually care about the drinking age? (U.S.)

Great Debates
1

It seems like about ten years ago “they” started really going nuts about selling alcohol to people under 21 in the United States (I may be off by a few years). Stores are really, really diligent about checking IDs just about everywhere in the 'States, presumably because of the level of scrutiny by the powers that be and the levels of repercussions if caught selling to “minors.” (I put that in quotes because I really don’t see why a person who is 20 years old is still a minor in this one respect only.)

Where does this zealotry come from? I don’t know anyone who really cares about keeping alcohol away from young adults, and many (most?) agree that it is better to learn to drink responsibly than to suddenly go on a ridiculous and probably dangerous binge on one’s 21st birthday.

Does anyone here think it’s important to prevent any and all alcohol consumption by people under 21? I know there is the drunk driving aspect, but that’s an issue at any age, and is arguably made worse by people not learning how to drink responsibly. What do you think?

2

[QUOTE=Renee]
Where does this zealotry come from?
[/QUOTE]

The zealotry from the stores comes from a number of sting operations that quite a few police departments did (sending in an underage informant to try to buy alcohol/tobacco). Theres nothing wrong with making sure stores are obeying the law as long entrapment isn’t used (like sending in someone who clearly looks over 21 but isn’t), and if you have a problem with the law the people to contact or complain about is the legislature that passed the law, not the store or the cops who enforce it.

Where the insanity kicks in is how nobody is using any common sense. It’s ludicrous to demand id of someone who is so obviously over the legal age (like a little old lady).

3

I feel the legal drinking age should be 18. As the old adage goes, one can fight and die for their country at age 18, but they can’t drink a beer?

4

[QUOTE=pkbites]

Where the insanity kicks in is how nobody is using any common sense. It’s ludicrous to demand id of someone who is so obviously over the legal age (like a little old lady).
[/QUOTE]

Amusingly, when I was in highschool one of my friends would dress up like a middle aged woman to buy booze, which always worked. But I agree with you.

5

It largely erupts from the trend of growing numbers of “frequent binge drinkers”, and a widespread belief that someone needs to do something to tackle this problem. In particular, of course, middle-class parents have grown more worried about their kids and more determined to have legal monitoring of said kids’ behavior. The baby boomer parents are a powerful political force because of sheer numbers.

6

I care about the drinking age, in that I think it’s stupid.

We seem to have this weird idea that people will avoid alcohol like the plague until they are 21, and then suddenly, magically, know how to drink responsibly. Meanwhile, they have actually been practicing bad drinking habits in secret for three to five years. Plus, the “forbidden fruit” angle makes it attractive to kids.

I learned to drink at home as a child. I’ve always been grateful for that.

I would support lowering the drinking age to 18. I think it’s bizarre that voting adults cannot drink. Most college students can’t drink (though they do anyway). I would support eliminating it altogether, too, but I can’t see that happening.

7

[QUOTE=diggleblop]
I feel the legal drinking age should be 18. As the old adage goes, one can fight and die for their country at age 18, but they can’t drink a beer?
[/QUOTE]

Wisconsin has considered lowering the drinking to 19 for military personnel only, but nothing is likely to come of it. In Vermont there was a bill before the General Assembly to lower it back to 18 for every one. The problem is unless a state bans the sale of (but not necessarily the consumption of) alcoholic beverages to anyone under 21 they loose federal highway funds. There is no real movement to lower the drinking age in the US. Blame MADD. And enforcement can vary in strange ways. For instance in PA I get carded at almost every bar, restaurant, club, winery, or beer distributor (all privately owned). But when I go to the state-run Wine & Spirits Shoppes nobody asks for ID. Of course the Liquor Control Board can’t very well fine itself or, heaven forbid, punish a civil servant!

8

I’m not sure that having a bunch of 18-year-olds binge drinking on their birthday is any better than a bunch of 21-year-olds binge drinking on their birthday, and arguably a lot worse.

9

When the age was 18 (as it was for me) it was wayyyyy too easy to get liquor at 14 as more than half the seniors in school were 18 and willing to sell it to you. Wisconsin raised it to 19 and it seemed to curb that effect.

But 19 didn’t really get a fair trial as the Feds soon insisted on 21. I wouldn’t oppose dropping the age down to 19. I would oppose 18.

10

[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
I’m not sure that having a bunch of 18-year-olds binge drinking on their birthday is any better than a bunch of 21-year-olds binge drinking on their birthday, and arguably a lot worse.
[/QUOTE]

I would argue against any drinking age, I think it’s better for people to learn to drink responsibly with their parents at home before they are 18. I do think maybe 18 (or 19, as pkbites suggested) should be the purchase age just to keep really young kids under some degree of control, but treating alcohol like a forbidden fruit and the ultimate marker of adulthood does no one any good.

11

I completely agree the drinking age should be 18 in the United States. The sting operations that police run are insane. Of course, the “card everyone” rule is stupid as well. I used to have to buy cigarettes for a 77 year old woman because she didn’t drive and thus didn’t carry ID.

12

[QUOTE=Renee]
<snip>
(I put that in quotes because I really don’t see why a person who is 20 years old is still a minor in this one respect only.)
<snip>
[/QUOTE]

It’s not just that. The legal gambling age (at least here in Kentucky/Indiana) is 21. Strangely, the age limit for playing the lottery is 18. To recap: I, a 19-year-old, can buy a lottery ticket (total luck) but I can’t play poker in a casino (skill and luck). Sometimes I hate living in America.

On alcohol:
I went to Hong Kong about a year ago and stayed with a 15-year-old kid and his family. The kid drank beer at dinner, which absolutely flabbergasted me. That never would have happened in my house. And the next week, I stayed with another 15-year-old kid, who also drank beer at dinner. Apparently, this is common in Hong Kong. Also, binge drinking is apparently very uncommon because alcohol is demysitfied for kids. I have come to the conclusion that this is the way to go: have an age limit on purchasing, but no age limit on drinking. Let the kids drink beer! I really believe that this would drastically lower rates of DWI, drunkenness, binge drinking, and Alcoholism.

13

I think it should be at least 1 year BEFORE legal driving age, people should know how they react to drinking WAAAAAAAAAAY before they start messing with cars/SUV’s

14

[QUOTE=pkbites]
When the age was 18 (as it was for me) it was wayyyyy too easy to get liquor at 14 as more than half the seniors in school were 18 and willing to sell it to you. Wisconsin raised it to 19 and it seemed to curb that effect.

But 19 didn’t really get a fair trial as the Feds soon insisted on 21. I wouldn’t oppose dropping the age down to 19. I would oppose 18.
[/QUOTE]

I agree. I think the best system would be a drinking age of 19 with a Wisconsin style rule where you can drink with your parents at a younger age.

15

Ok, most of these arguments are the same one’s I’ve been hearing since I was 18. Let me address them one at a time:

How does one “learn” to drink responsibly at a high school or college keg party? The standard pattern for drinking for most young people is usually “binge”. Most people have been doing this for several years by the time they turn 21. The only difference would be that the ridicuous and dangerous binge starts at 18 instead of 21.

What does one have to do with the other? You can’t rent a car (25) or run for President (35) either. Additionally, most states only forbid stores to SELL to you and forbid you to BUY or POSSESS it if you are under 21. You can still consume alchohol under parental supervision.

The law was passed in 1984 seting the national drinking age to 21. It was raised not to curb “frequent binge drinkers” but to reduce the number of alchohol related auto fatalities. One of the problems was that you had a lot of 18-20 year olds who would drive long distances to the next state to drink. They would be more inclined to get into an accident because of their further driving distance.

Based on what? We have a very different culture from Hong Kong. People don’t drink to excess because it’s “mystifying” or “forbidden”. They drink to excess because in this country we do everything in excess. Part of drinking culture is about seeing how much you can drink and how wasted you can get. Not to mention that it can be addictive.

As I mentioned above, you can already drink at home with your parents. Do you think kids will learn to appreciate a nice glass of Chardonnay? More likely, I think the lesson learned will be enheriting their parents alchoholism.

That’s another problem. Even though the legal age is 21, the defacto age in any college is 17-18. Someone always knows someone who is of legal age. It always caused problems for us when we threw parties because half the crowd can drink legally and the other half can’t. That’s the only reason I can think of that makes sense to lower the drinking age to 19.

If that’s enough to make you hate living in this country, maybe you don’t have the maturity to drink.

16

I had no idea it was legal to drink at home with your parents. Can someone verify this? If it is, I withdraw any complaints about a mandatory drinking age (not that I’ve made any in this thread, but I’ve thought them and argued them at other times), and I’ll include my son in the wine at dinner tonight.

If this is indeed true, is it also legal to buy a glass of wine for my son at a restaurant? Can I legally serve he and his friend a couple of beers? What if his friend’s mom is at my house and says it’s OK? What if it’s 20 of his friends and their parents?

I’m just floored that it’s legal to serve my kid alcohol, but willing to admit that this might be one of those things “everyone knows” is illegal that isn’t. But it’s the first I’ve heard of it.

17

I don’t think it would be as prevelant. Alcohol has the aura of the cool and forbidden because it’s restricted. Perhaps the answer lies in what goes on in other countries where alcohol is less restricted. For example, do they have problems with binge drinking in France where children grow up drinking wine at dinner?

Is everyone who has wine with dinner an alcoholic?

A lot of people have really gone overboard with the idea that alcohol is super-dangerous for minors. Just last week, I was talking about old-fashioned home remedies with someone. I told her that when I was teething, my grandmother put a tiny bit of wine in my bottle, and when I was sick, she made me Hot Toddies*. The woman looked at me with such an expression of horror you would have thought I’d told her that my grandparents put me in porno films.

Maybe some of this has gotten confused with fetal alcohol syndrome.

  • Her recipe was a shot of Southern Comfort, lemon and honey mixed with hot water. Great for colds and flus.
18

[QUOTE=msmith537]
As I mentioned above, you can already drink at home with your parents. Do you think kids will learn to appreciate a nice glass of Chardonnay? More likely, I think the lesson learned will be enheriting their parents alchoholism.
[/QUOTE]

Um, pardon?

I’m a very occasional drinker. I have a few if I’m out with friends, or I might have one drink at home once a week or so. If my daughter wants a sip, I’ll give her a sip. She’s happy to take a bit of Mike’s or a bit of mudslide on the extremely rare occasion that I have one. She’s less likely to ask for any of my typical vodka and tonic.

At fifteen, she’s too young for more than a sip or two, IMO. But the thing is, I don’t make a huge deal out of that sip, and when she gets older, I won’t make a huge deal out of her having a Mike’s or a mudslide. If you think that kids don’t drink largely because they aren’t supposed to, then you clearly don’t know any kids.

Like anything else, if you treat it as just a part of life, and talk about it honestly, kids don’t get quite that same high off of doing something mysterious and adult. I’ve taught her never to leave her drink (ANY drink) unattended. I’ve told her to be wary of sweet drinks, since they go down easier and sugar exacerbates hangover. I’ve told her not to mix it up over the course of the night, but to stick to one sort of drink. I’ve described (as best I can) how it’s fun to get a bit of a buzz, and considerably less fun to get room-spinning, falling down, puking drunk.

Do I think that this means that she’s NEVER get room-spinning, falling down, puking drunk? Of course not. But I expect that having it in the back of her mind “Hey, she was right. This is pretty much the opposite of fun.”, along with the message that drinking is fine, as long as you stop before you get to that point, will make it easier for her to resist the adolescent idea that nothing’s better than more.

Oh, and for the record, I’m all for the drinking age being lowered to eighteen. I’d like the *driving * age raised to 21!

19

[QUOTE=DianaG]

Oh, and for the record, I’m all for the drinking age being lowered to eighteen. I’d like the *driving * age raised to 21!
[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with this one - I used to live near the high school (open campus) and driving near there during lunch time was terrifying.

Then again, maybe it’s not that they’re teenagers, but that their parents aren’t teaching them that they’re driving a motorized weapon.

~Tasha

20

[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
I’m not sure that having a bunch of 18-year-olds binge drinking on their birthday is any better than a bunch of 21-year-olds binge drinking on their birthday, and arguably a lot worse.
[/QUOTE]

Well, maybe they could allow 18 year olds to drink lower proof alcoholic beverages (like beer and wine coolers) and 21 year olds are allowed to get the hard stuff. That way they could be gradually introduced to the stuff…