And I thought we were discussing what they actually said, and not your misinterpretation of what they said.
For centuries, America has been a Mecca for hard-working people seeking a chance to apply their talents. Many of the “illegals” have been here since childhood and are honest people contributing to our prosperity while pursuing the American dream. Should they all be deported?
Over the decades and centuries many who went on to be great Americans snuck across a border, or entered the country with forged papers, or violated the terms of their visas. Here’s a webpage with just a few recent examples of illegal immigrants or visa violators including Schwarzenegger, Michael J. Fox, Salma Hayek and even the present First Lady. Should they all be arrested?
It’s been at least a decade and a half since i felt like a good honest reasonable person could support the Republican party.
How am I misinterpreting? My interpretation was “that folks who got here illegally should get to stay.” What they actually said was that “immigrants who are already living in the United States” – which I interpret to mean both those who came here legally and those who got here illegally – should, as it were, “be incorporated completely into our society”, which I interpret to mean “get to stay.”
Where do you see an error in interpretation?
They don’t want to see poor people starve so they have them removed from their line of sight.
They don’t want to see poor people starve but they don’t want to support any programs that help poor people rise above their situation.
Bottom line, they don’t want to see poor people starve but if it negatively impacts their personal pocketbook in any way, then it’s completely off the table.
The illegal aliens have done nothing to warrant that their citizenship be moved ahead of all of those who wish to immigrate to the U.S. legally.
Sure they have, they showed enough initiative to get here first. USA! USA!
So why don’t you democrats have trouble with the fact Hillary and Obama gladly took Weinsteins money and also money from all of Weinsteins “friends” at his Hollywood star studded parties/fundraisers? AND they come out now “shocked” at all his accusations.
Yeah, right… they claim they didn’t know.
The arguments that illegals are as deserving as those that follow immigration procedures is part of what leaves Liberals looking like jerks to those that vote Republican. Equating the two is shitty.
Keep in mind, I say this as an independent that votes 95% Dem.
That would be nice but we simply don’t have the jobs, spaces in our schools, space in our hospitals, and generally enough room for them.
Sorry, we just cant take in all the poor people in the world.
Personally, I just do it to annoy Doorhinge
Well in that case, Carry On.
The argument is actually that undocumented immigrants have never had a chance to follow any procedure to legally immigrate to the United States and those who are lucky enough to have been given that chance are the ones that got a break, not the other way around. Trying to paint illegal immigrants as some sort of “line cutters” that simply did not feel like doing things legally is a complete misrepresentation of the issue.
How so? We have rules, they are breaking them.
If there were an immigration procedure for them to follow, then that would be one thing. But, as it is, there really is no way for someone from most third world nations to come here, it’s not really line cutting.
Equating the opportunities that different groups have to come here is, IMHO, pretty shitty.
We have the jobs. What’s unemployment like these days? I need to hire like 3 people, and I’m not getting any responses. I know many other business owners in the same situation. We’ve got plenty of space in our schools, we need more students in school, in fact. Our population is not growing without immigration, and as pretty much everything in capitalism is a ponzi scheme in the end, the only way to sustain it is for the population to grow. We’ve got more then enough room for everybody.
What we really need is people to come here that want to work to better their lives. That will help the economy grow. That will help us build more schools, more hospitals. More consumers means more demand, which means more demand for jobs.
A stagnant, or even worse, shrinking population will run into far more issues in the economy than the problem of trying to find somewhere in our nearly 4 million square miles to put someone.
I want immigration not just for the benefit of the immigrants who come here and get to live a better life than if we had walled them out, but for the benefits that immigrants bring to us.
By increasing quotas to cover pretty much anyone who wants to come here, you eliminate essentially all illegal immigration. The only reason someone would immigrate illegally would be because they are some sort of known criminal that we do not want to let into our country, but they want to come in to commit illegal activities anyway. If they are not given the shield of thousands of other immigrants coming here illegally because they want a better life, then those who come here because they want to cuase disruption and harm will stand out far more, and be much easier to catch and deny entry.
I’m against “open borders” in that I do feel that we should control our borders in such a way that we know who it is that is coming in, and we should turn away those that we have good reason to keep out due to their criminal history. I don’t like people who stay here past their visas, and I 'm not a big fan of extending those indefinitely either. I feel if you want to be here, if this is where you want to make a better life, then you should take the steps to become a citizen. I have no problem only allowing a limited time for work visas, before they need to pony up or go home. 10 years or so, maybe less.
But, I am for “open borders”, only in the sense that I feel that anyone who wants to come here to work to make a better life for themselves and their families will also be a positive contribution to the community and to society overall. They exemplify the american dream, they are the very essence of what the country was founded on. Denying immigration is denying our heritage, denying our strengths, and what it is to be an American.
So, it’s nuanced, and depends on what you mean by open borders. I am sure that someone will quote the first 6 word of my last paragraph and triumphantly declare that all liberals want to have borderless countries because of those words, but, that would be because they lack the reading comprehension skills to understand more than 6 words at a time, as well as the inability to understand that just because people subscribe to a similar political ideology, they still have much room for disagreement within. Some people talk about having open borders for trade, where goods may pass freely without tariff or custom, and when they do so, they get called on wanting to erase the meaning of a country, because they used those words, or those words were attributed to their views, which is usually close enough in most conservative minds. For instance, a poster, in this very thread, recently attributed to 2 posters the views of all liberal thinking, and not only did he find it easy to broad brush everyone with the posts of two people, he also entirely summed up their positions incorrectly. That is an example of the sorts of things that many trump supporters do that makes it hard to take them seriously as decent people.
It’s like the USA is the only developed country with an immigration narrative.
You want to try having a sea border with Africa and a land border with Asia.
I have a rule that What Exit must stay on that side of the fence.
The food is on this side of the fence. I’ve got more than enough for everybody over here, partly because I used my power and influence to take the food from your side of the fence in the first place.
I sometimes let people in, people that I like, people that I approve of, they can come in and eat, but not the people over there in whatexitistanstan.
Sometimes, they sneak in, and try to eat the food over here, using the excuse that there is no food over there as a reason for breaking the rules.
People should just lay down and die, and watch their families die, rather than breaking the rules and coming over the fence to share in my food.
Do you really want to open that “Guilt By Association” can of worms?
Funny that you are so concerned with nuance when a statement is directed at that which you have an affinity for. Yet, the title of this thread as well as hundreds if not thousands of non nuanced statements of derision are directed at conservatives or Republicans.
There are 7.5 billion people on Earth. Should every nation feel on obligation to feed, house, educate, and provide medical care for any subset of that 7.5 billion that can cross the border? Seems like discrimination against the less mobile.
I admit it’s a thorny issue. I don’t think it’s xenophobic, bigoted, racist, transphobic, or sexist to have the discussion though.
I don’t know what the optimal solution is. Maybe expedited citizenship for those here now and a huge fine on employers in the future as a disincentive. Who knows? But to demonize those who think encouraging illegal immigration is wrong is not very productive.