Does anyone else think Word 2007 Sucks? Badly!!

Forgive me if I’ve misunderstood, but it sounds like you’re talking about the dropdown box that sat on the formatting toolbar. The dropdown box with Normal, Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. in it. It showed whatever formatting was applied to a paragraph, and if you wanted to change it you just did what one does with a dropdown box.

Go to Word Options > Customize. Change Choose Commands From: to Commands Not in the Ribbon (or All Commands). Scroll down to “Style,” the entry with the dropdown arrow on the right hand side of the list. Add it to the Quick Access Toolbar, and you’re done.

While I don’t blame MS for making a change that takes a bit of digging to figure out, I do blame them for limiting us to just the Quick Access bar. Again, Ribbon Customizer should help out.

Anyone know how to change the size of the dropdown box on the QAT?
ETA:
Per Microsoft:

Fuckers. Anyone know a workaround?

These days I use AppleWorks.

Back when I was still in academia, I used Nisus Writer. They have an OS X native version out, but I don’t really need all those additional features. (I hardly even need different fonts or boldface. I do the overwhelming vast majority of text-based content creation and editing in a text editor nowadays, not a word processor). I also looked at WordPerfect 3 for Mac (too many bells and whistles but not as frustrating to use as Word).

I don’t care for iWork’s word processing module (Pages?) but maybe I haven’t given it a decent try.

On the PC side, I’ve used WordPro and its predecessor AmiPro; aside from WAY too many bloody toolbars that I could not turn off or hide, it was easy to use and non-frustrating.

Fifteen years ago, I used MacWrite Pro and was mostly happy with it. It was one of the best for minimalist interfaces. That’s really why I’ve ended up using AppleWorks NOW: it’s like the resurrection of MacWrite Pro in a lot of ways.

Twenty to twenty five years ago, I played with FullWrite, WriteNow, and yes I had my first run-ins with Microsoft Word right around that time also. The free word processor that came with the Mac was MacWrite 4.6 but it was way too underpowered even for my liking: when you can’t do footnotes or endnotes and can’t even have more than one document open at one time, you’re not good for much. Its successor, MacWrite II, was a substantial step up, but if I recall correctly I used WriteNow until I switched to MacWrite Pro.

In the DO NOT LIKE category, just for comparison, I care no more for OpenOffice or NeoOffice than I do for Word, and AmiPro isn’t very pleasant either. They are all Word-wannabees and it shows.

A lot has been said about the horribly user-hostile WordPerfect for MS-DOS, but one day playing around on my friend’s PC I discovered that there was a keystroke (alt-equals?) that turned on overhead menus. Freed from having to memorize and use arcane F6 and Shift Alt F7 and all that garbage, it actually wasn’t too bad. Still, the menus themselves were nonstandard compared to Mac (and Windows)…I can’t honestly say I would happily work in that environment. But I’d use it before I’d use Microsoft Word.

Okay, so then where does it show up after that? FWIW, I know how to get the giant formatting sidebar that shows up on the right hand side of the screen. I don’t want that, you STILL have to use 2 or 3 mouseclicks to glean the information about your formatting. The reason the old way was so useful is that you didn’t have to do anything at all other than move the cursor to the text. With that giant sidebar thing that’s 2007’s answer to formatting, there are still several clicks you have to use to view and change formatting.

And don’t get me started on global changes…sigh.

Oh wait, now I see it. Why can’t it go in the “menu” part of the ribbon in a category like everything else. And unfortunately, it doesn’t contain the specifics of the formatting, but it’s better than it was. BTW, I’ve been through I don’t know how many tech sites, including actually calling MS and you’re the first person who’s had the answer. Our other tech writers will be thrilled!

One thing I only learned about a couple days ago that has decreased my need to use the mouse as much is that you can access all the commands that are visible in the Ribbon or your Quick Access toolbar via a few keystrokes. I wish I’d known about it earlier, since I’ve been using Office 2007 for over a year on a laptop with a crappy mouse touchpad. I was going to try to describe how to do this, but I’m lazy so I think I’ll just quote from the Word online Help.

For example, to access “insert pagebreak” you press ALT, then N to get to the Insert tab, then B to insert a page break.

Good to know! Thanks, and I don’t blame you for being lazy. :slight_smile:

Confused: if you only ever use Word for producing text documents, then why did you buy Word? There’s already a text editor built into Windows, and also a minimal word processor.

It came with a free Frogurt.

Not got time to respond to much really, but:

AHunter3’s assertion that 1500 commands is too many, and that rather than redesign the shitty interface, Microsoft should remove some functions. As he’s rather demonstrated, this view a) relies on a pretty generous view of what constitutes a “command”, and a preference for doing things manually that I think is atypical. It was a slightly facetious question not meant to be taken literally, but rather to suggest that perceived bloat is a function not just of the number of features, but of their ease of access, and that saying “take away some features” isn’t very helpful unless you can identify what features aren’t needed.

Will respond to the rest of your post later. :slight_smile:

You’re a lawyer. I have no idea what kind or size of firm you’re with, but if you’re at a medium to large sized firm, believe me, others at your firm are doing a lot more with Word than you are.

As I said above, I run the document services department at a large (500+ lawyer) firm. You may be writing briefs and the occasional letter, but we’re cranking out every kind of document you can imagine, from briefs with tables of contents and tables of authorities to complex SEC filings with linked or embedded spreadsheets containing reams of financial data to marketing brochures with extensive graphics, to booklets (tricky, but Word 2007 has some real improvements for this task), to just about anything you can imagine.

So if you’re a lawyer at a large firm, you *do *need to do all these things – you just (quite sensibly) delegate those taks to someone else so you’re free to work on briefs.

While still keeping in mind everything I said above, this isn’t such a bad idea.

For plain text processing, might I reccomend Notepad++?
http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm
It’s really amazing. Does all sorts of neat tricks.

I haven’t tried that out yet. I’ve used Textpad for years. Does anybody have experience with both? http://www.textpad.com/

A solid vote for both. Or either. They get the job done with minimal BS, especially if you are coding.

But the Frogurt was also cursed, am I right?

Nope - sorry. Work for the BIGGEST firm around - the federal government. My agency has Word as its internal system, but DOJ, the gov’t’s atty of record in just about all of our litigation, has WP as their system. May make no sense to you, me, or anyone else, but that is the way it is, the way it has been for more than the past decade, and the way I expect it to continue. Hell, I suspect should the day ever come that Justice converts to Word, my agency will see fit to switch over to WP! :stuck_out_tongue:

So everything I send to Justice has to be in WP. That is probably 90-95% of my work product, as opposed to internal memos and such which must be in Word. (Docs filed directly w/ the court must be saved as PDFs.)

In the past, I have found that WP translated to Word FAR better than the other way around. So I chose to draft primarily in WP.

You may need to do all of those things in a large private law firm, but I have not needed to working in this job for this employer for 23 years. Also, as a gov’t employee I have to ask, where do I find these people you suggest to whom I can delegate tasks I don’t care to do? :stuck_out_tongue:

On the good news front, was happy to find that this a.m. my computer works pretty much the same as it always has. Outlook looked a little different at first, but I’m already forgetting exactly how the old version looked.

Just pulled up Word this a.m., and I should be able to do what little I need to in there pretty well. But - now this is the kinda thing that pisses me off. One the very few things I ever do is print docs when I need a hard copy for a file or some other reason. Where the fuck do I print? I used to have a print icon as well as a print command on the leftmost pulldown. Now I’ve clicked through home/insert/page layout/references/mailings/review/view, and haven’t found an obvious way to print.

It really is hard for me to imagine how some fucking genius would think it an improvement to make an experienced user not know how to PRINT! That’s the kind of thing that makes me wonder what other little surprises lie in wait for me. And, the way things go, I’m sure I’ll discover them when I am under a deadline…:rolleyes:

Oh - just found it under that goofy icon up in the left corner. Hell, I thought that was just a decorative logo or something! That little logo probably contains a quarter of the functions I ever do - new/open/save/save as/print/publish. And I have to imagine those are among the most basic commands used by the vast majority of users. In terms of marketing, I can imagine why they want you to click on their logo as often as possible. But in terms of utility and user friendliness, I don’t see it - and it kinda pisses me off.

Ctrl+P still works, y’know.

No, I didn’t know that. Well, I guess I did at one time, but since I need to work in both WP and Word, I’ve stopped using any number of shortcuts or macros so long as I find something that works for me reliably.

This I completely agree with; the Office Blob thingy is a usability disaster. There’s no particular reason you’d expect it to be clickable, and no visual clue as to what commands it might contain even if you did; indeed the usual thing in that corner deals purely with window maximisation and so forth.

I do however know why they did it, which is not to make the logo huge, but rather that it’s a big target right in the corner, and thus one of the easiest things to track to with the mouse. Same for the Start button - you just slam the mouse down-left, or up-left, and don’t have to worry about overshooting. It’s a perfectly good reason why frequently-accessed buttons should be at the corners, and not in the middle of the screen. And like you say, that button now contains a lot of really common functions.

Unfortunately, they got so caught up in this little bit of usability theory that they completely forgot to give users a little hint that this is a functional button, let alone what it does. Which is weird, seeing as they went to so much trouble to get as many text cues as possible in the ribbon.

Right, two days and one eaten draft later, an utterly loser-length post:

Well, I don’t. That’s what it is all right. :slight_smile: And I think that alone is an improvement, certainly on the mishmash of textless, shifting toolbars users were previously presented with, and very definitely on the appearance and disappearance of contextual toolbars, which tended to rearrange things confusingly. Apart from that, the way it rearranges itself to present as much information as possible for a given window width is rather nice, and moderately innovative. But mostly the tabbed aspect is why (IMO) it’s an improvement. It provides locality of reference for groups of commands frequently accessed at similar times, and increases the information on screen for users to work out what each individual button does. I think both of these are almost indisputable improvements.

I don’t think it is per se; I think it’s more that it would’ve complicated the changes they were making, and was thus ditched as less important than actually having a usable interface to start with. It is, however, on the way back in 2010 (in fact it looks like they’ve essentially purchased and extended RibbonCustomizer).

That said, I do happen to think that customisability is a bit overrated, and that often people think they know best, but in fact harm their usability by setting things up “just the way they like it.” I also suspect that the value of customisation is artificially enhanced by just how utterly shit the old interface was. It almost necessitated digging out every button you wanted, and putting it where you knew it was, because finding the motherfuckers in the first place was such an absolute arse. But this shouldn’t be the limit of our expectations of UIs, that we can bully them into being tolerable.

This view seems rather at odds with the rest of the argument here, which is that users are already so locked in to Word 2003’s interface that even something exposing exactly the same functions in a slightly different way is untenable. Microsoft are in fact providing an ideal break point at which other word processor manufacturers can step in and say, “hey! Our UI is just like Microsoft’s old one!” It’s practically the opposite of lock-in. If users can learn the ribbon, they can certainly learn competitors’ UIs.

Look at the default opening screens of:

Wordperfect Office X4
Word 2003
Word 2007

To my eye, those contain mostly the same commands, and mostly the same icons. In no program are they in identical spots; the only really significant difference to my eye is that Word 2007 it’s made explicit what tasks the groups relate to (paragraph, font etc.). I confess I find it very hard to believe that anyone can be so locked in to the specific positions of any of these sets of icons that they would be unable to work with the other interfaces; the key is that classic icons are largely unchanged, and non-standard ones are discoverable. You only have to click something a couple of times to have learnt the new position; the real time goes in finding a function whose icon you don’t know.

I also don’t think the consistency you describe was ever truly there even within Word itself. Because of the way toolbars could be dragged all over the place, and wrapped and displaced each other in an arbitrary manner, at best you could expect the first couple of toolbars or so to be where you put them. Other commands you had to know the icon for, and go hunting for it. Maybe you even had to right-click and remember which toolbar it was in, re-enable it, re-arrange the resulting changes to your toolbar layout, and then click. You could never sit at a co-worker’s computer and expect to find the same toolbar layout. And this, I think, was something Microsoft were seeking to address. Customisability is all very well, but because the old interface was so terrible that customisation became the norm, meaning that in effect everyone had to become their own Office interface designer. It shouldn’t be like that, and it can’t possibly have ended up maximising efficiency over large organisations.

You might argue that in optimising for the common case, the non-expert user, Microsoft has taken something away from power users (and like I say, they’re putting customisation back). And I would probably agree. But I think it’s a tradeoff that had to be made somewhen. Like I say, I think this is the very opposite of Microsoft lock-in. As with Vista, they’ve made some fairly significant changes that have probably harmed take-up of the product in the short term, but have set up the product line to be much better in future.

Hmm, yes, well I certainly wouldn’t ever argue that Word 2007 “blows me away.” Like I said earlier, I think it’s now a more-or-less competent product, as opposed to the steaming pile of manure it once was. I approach it from the point of view of the occasional user, but one who’s usually required to do something reasonably tricky with it (because I mostly have to deal with it when it’s outfoxed a colleague). From this perspective, the new UI is a big improvement, as measured in “number of nearby grannies given coronaries by my swearing.” I still think it’s pretty ghastly typography-wise (although I see 2010 will have advanced OpenType features), and I still wouldn’t choose to write anything longer than a letter in it (I loves me my LaTeX). But it surely is easier to find out how to do new things, and isn’t so different that it takes very long to find how to do old things.

I’m certainly not saying Office 2007 is perfect. I’m also not saying there have been no regressions (I don’t really use Outlook, so can’t comment on what I’m sure are annoying omissions). But I do think the Ribbon has come in for some undeserved stick, and has acted as something of a lightning-rod for other inevitable complaints about the products (which are, after all, still made by Microsoft). I can see the reasons it was introduced (and I really do recommend reading the UI blogs linked to earlier), and I think Microsoft should be given some credit for really taking a step back and thinking things through. No, the results aren’t to everyone’s taste, but it’s a marked improvement on their previous approach to design, and I don’t think the negative motives imputed are fair.

In fact I just found a blog from the UI team on customisation, how it had gotten out of hand with the old toolbars, how they analysed how it was most frequently used, and considered how to best incorporate it within the new UI. It’s really rather good, and I don’t think there’s any point my summarising it here, particularly because this is now my third post in a row and I’m feeling enough of a dork already. But it is worth reading, and is indicative of how they went about the redesign in general.