Does anyone ever admit their position is wrong in Great Debates?

[Shodan]

@Huey_Freeman

It is my belief that people post on social media sites (like SDMB) not to debate* ideas but as a place to seek gratification and to get validation* of their ideas. This need for extrinsic validation has the tendency to turn what would be “great debates” into psychotherapy sessions or a priest’s confessional. I think it all comes from a place of loneliness and/or helplessness. The former type of loneliness where one would rather engage with strangers than the people they don’t know. It’s sad.

Is that what you’re doing?

It makes sense, in a way - you aren’t here to debate, so you assume no one else is.

Regards,
Shodan

[RitterSport]

@Huey_Freeman

I endorse this. You cannot change hearts and minds on social media. It’s a waste of time. For example, just this morning, I thought long and hard about responding to this post with cites and all but after about 10-second reflection, I decided against it. Why waste time? What would be the fucking point? It is my belief that people post on social media sites (like SDMB) not to debate* ideas but as a place to seek gratification and to get validation* of their ideas. This need for extrinsic validation has the tendency to turn what would be “great debates” into psychotherapy sessions or a priest’s confessional. I think it all comes from a place of loneliness and/or helplessness. The former type of loneliness where one would rather engage with strangers than the people they don’t know. It’s sad.

This is obviously wrong since people have posted in this very thread about how their opinions on various subjects have been changed, including gay and trans rights and gun control, both very hot-button issues. Maybe you won’t see it in the thread (I agree with the OP that it’s very rare to see someone arguing for many posts and then have a change of heart), but these threads do influence people and change hearts and minds.

But, if you’re not here to debate and discuss, then I guess the Pit is the place for you.

[Gyrate]

@Max_Torque

I’ve changed on gun control. Back in the day I was one of the strongest advocates for the second amendment, and I put a lot of energy into arguing that position.

Now, I’m changing, although it’s not a complete flip. I still own a gun, I still think shooting is fun. But something needs to be done about the modern epidemic of mass shootings, and what we’ve been doing (nothing) isn’t working. I’m less concerned now about “fundamental right” and more about “it’s gotta stop.” If that means we have to change the amendment, so be it.

Conversely I’ve gone from a more absolutist position on gun control to a more nuanced one. It’s been a while but ISTR it was arguments from the likes of ExTank and others that led me to reconsider. Which isn’t to say I don’t continue to argue against absolutist views and disingenuous arguments on the other side of the fence where they occur, but I’ve found more common ground in the middle than I had previously suspected existed.

I also recall doing a *volte face *on hate crime legislation and openly admitting at the time I’d changed my mind. And there have probably been other instances.

But more importantly there have been many times where I’ve come into a thread without a firm opinion on one side or the other and reading the different arguments has helped clarify how I felt about the topic. So while lurkers coming in with strong views are unlikely to be swayed there are people without strong views who might be.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Fiddle_Peghead

In this thread, I was going to post the following:

pkbites:
my response was to be:
I decided instead to bring it all to the Pit.

This is was in regards to his stance on the current situation in Wisconsin, where the outgoing legislature has passed a few laws undermining the power of some of those just elected. He is fine with this. Despite many arguments to the contrary that make good sense (well, to me anyway) he hasn’t changed his opinion.

All of which prompted me to post the OP question.

Well, do they? More specifically, does anyone have any example of a doper changing an opinion that they have been arguing for over the course of many posts and lengthy discussions, as opposed to someone who almost immediately recognizes they were wrong?

To save anyone the trouble who might be tempted to go find an example of this happening, let me save you that trouble.

No. :rolleyes::mad::smack:

It happens. It used to happen more.

I remember having my mind changed at least a little bit on Israel.

I remember seeing people being persuaded on the assault weapon ban.

If you present people with new facts, they will frequently reach new conclusions.
But usually if people already have all the facts then their opinion is pretty much set. You can’t really spin the facts sufficiently to change someone’s mind.

[Slash1972]

No! Die Hard will NEVER, EVER be a Christmas movie, and nobody will ever change my mind!

[RitterSport]

Huey Freeman, are you going to come back and admit you were wrong given the examples in this very thread? Your claim is different than the OP’s – you claim that this is all a waste of time and no one changes their mind by reading these threads. That’s different than the OP who claims that no one expressing a strong view in a thread changes their mind.

So, are you going to prove the OP right or wrong in this thread?

[K2500]

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

My opinions have been changed, formed and affirmed on a number of significant issues here, both from posting and reading. These issues have ranged from a complete 180 on LGBT rights and the death penalty, to some 90 deg transitions on abortion as well as crime and punishment.

Any topic covered under “Great Debates” is entirely subjective, which makes it incredibly difficult to actually be wrong, much less introduce the desire or will to admit it.

Saying a thing is right or wrong is, generally, just another way of saying whether or not you currently agree with that something.

[DSeid]

I’ve somewhat often changed my position 360 degrees … does that count?

Seriously, I have at least modified my take on multiple occasions. And I’ve been forced to more critically evaluate and question my position many other times. The serious bit of the 360 comment is that I may end often up in nearly the same place but my footing is more solid. That’s a benefit.

[Huey_Freeman]

@RitterSport

But, if you’re not here to debate and discuss, then I guess the Pit is the place for you.

I tried that. But yes, you are correct. I am not here to debate or discuss. I read, I (sometimes) say my piece/reply, I read some more, and I move on.

But yeah, when I joined, I tried the whole debate thing. The moderator referred to my post as “anti-white” while actively participating in said thread, then followed that up with a warning for insults. Though, curiously, another poster said something similar prior and was not given a warning. The lack of consistency was enough for me to read between the lines and get the fuck out. You see, there is no entitlement here - when a white man tells you to get off his lawn, I get the fuck off his lawn. Immediately. I am not going to debate, plead, or beg to be around where I’m not wanted. Hell, If I ever got a warning in the BBQ pit, I’d stop posting here too. I’m not here to debate with you (or anyone else). That ship has sailed. If that bothers you (or anyone else), I encourage you to ignore my posts as others have done.

[RitterSport]

You apparently missed my other post where I show that you were wrong that minds are never changed here or in other social media settings. Are you going to admit you were wrong?

I’ve read a lot of your posts and some of them certainly come across as anti-white. I don’t know if that’s your intent, but it’s definitely how it looks. I don’t really care about your posting and warning history here, but just letting you know how you come across.

Take that feedback or ignore it. It’s all the same to me.

There’s more to this board than just GD and the Pit. Spend some time in Cafe Society and comment on books, movies, and music. Or, in the game room and discuss sports and games. This is a pretty cool place with some pretty smart and interesting people. Not everything here is a fight.