Does anyone REALLY believe in two wrongs not making a right?

[bengangmo]

The classic one for me, when you consider the saying of Two Wrongs not Making a Right

Is it ok for the husband to cheat because the wife is cheating?

Or is it ok for me to steal from Peter because Paul stole from me?

And yes - I do quite genuinely believe in two wrongs not making a right

[protoboard]

@iamthewalrus_3

That’s not “the complete saying”. I mean, it’s a complete saying (of relatively recent origin), but it’s not the completion of the phrase “an eye for an eye”, in the sense that it was there in the original text and most people leave it out. It’s a commentary on the original statement.

“An eye for an eye” is a statement about reciprocity and proportionality in punishment. It’s saying that a just punishment for a transgression is equal in magnitude to the transgression. If applied fairly, it’s not a terrible system, since it prevents the escalation of violence that occurs in feuds.

On the subject of the OP, “an eye for an eye” isn’t at odds with “two wrongs don’t make a right”. Punishment, properly meted out, isn’t a wrong. It’s justice. The first statement is about the proper punishment for a crime. The second is a caution against vigilanteism.

Actually an eye for an eye was a call for mercy in its day, because in Mesopotamia at that time punishments were ridiculously harsh. Hannurabi was actually pretty forgiving and progressive for his time.

[Measure_for_Measure]

@protoboard

Isn’t the whole purpose of punishment to avenge the victim in a reasonable way so that their families/themselves don’t take matters into their own hands though? Especially since rehabilitation is not really something people take seriously. I don’t get how there is a difference between punishment and revenge aside from the state being the mediator.

No that is not the whole purpose of punishment, though it makes up a part.

Theories of punishment: Punishment - Wikipedia

There are 4 plus 1:

Deterrence - throw people in jail to discourage the populace from robbing banks.
Rehabilitation - give the criminal skills so that they will be cured of the urge to rob banks.
Incapacitation - Warehouse criminals so they can’t rob banks.
and lastly
Retribution - something that most of the legal literature takes a dim view of. (Not me though, at least entirely).

The plus one is “Restorative justice”. You work for reconciliation between the miscreant and his victims.

Anyway, yeah, two wrongs don’t make a right. But punishment can be appropriate for reasons other than retribution. In fact most legal theory either dismisses retribution or gives it a minor role. (Most legal practice may indeed be a different matter.)

Finally, there’s another virtue - taking ownership of your behavior. If you incite a stranger, there’s no reasonable expectation that the stranger has strong impulse control or even particularly values human life with certainty. Your friend sounds like at least a bit of a jackass. Maybe he will grow out of it though: one can hope.

[Sitnam]

In the 1988 presidential debates between Bush and Dukakis, the moderator tasked Dukakis, a long time death penalty opponent, what he would want to happen to a man who raped and murdered his wife. He waffled and lost the sympathy of the majority and it may have cost him the election

He was a putz, his answer was just further proof. The correct response was, “Of course I would want the raper and murder of Kitty to die, but that is vengeance and vengeance isn’t necessarily justice. The president of the United States must know the difference.”

[Trinopus]

@bengangmo

. . . Is it ok for the husband to cheat because the wife is cheating?

Or is it ok for me to steal from Peter because Paul stole from me? . . .

Those examples are interesting, because they don’t “pay it back,” but, instead, “pay it forward.” Like, Paul punched me in the nose, so I’m going to go out to a bar somewhere and find some total stranger and punch him in the nose.

At very least, if there have to be two wrongs, the reprisal should be directly relevant to the offense!