Actually, allowing for a less than all powerful god might mean that he was incapable of thwarting our free will.
A being that needs or wants glory would not be a perfect being.
Yes I’d agree with this, false gods (fallen angels/demons) do have this to contend with.
Only if it is undeserved. And it’s not so much as a need or want, but it is what should be. It is the natural order of things.
Why would a creator/god make such a thing the natural order of things, if it was not what it wanted or needed?
Either it wants or needs worship, in which case it is not perfect, or it had no choice but to do so, in which case it is not omnipotent and hence also not perfect.
I never mentioned false gods. Please do not put words in my mouth.
As I look at nature, I don’t see much grovelling or worshipping.
What is any number compared to infinity?
I was not implying you said that, I was saying we have already such an example, false gods do already have this limitation.
That is something God Himself must reveal to you, ask Him to open your eyes and ears.
The topic isn’t false gods.
Does this mean that you can’t give me examples of animals groveling and worshiping in their natural environment?
Please elaborate, I do not understand what this means with regards to the text are replying to.
The OP talked about Greek/Romans gods - and them being not all powerful. Many people today believe in false gods, Gaia (or whatever mother earth is called now) and the like.
Not unless God allows it.
God is so much greater then any created being it’s like comparing any number to infinity. Yes 200 (man) is small compared to 2000 (angel), but both are equally small compared to infinity (God). Both beings praise should be to God (though some of the angels apparently disagree).
God wants to work through us, and we will become one with Him (through the marriage of His Son to the Church), ‘God is One’, with God we will be elevated with Him.
I fail to see how any of this addresses my points in the post you replied to.
To repeat myself:
Your reply seems to just be saying that god is really, really, powerful. This does not in any way seem to dispute my argument repeated above that a perfect being would not need or want worship. In fact, it’s simply restating part of my argument.
Shall I just assume you are about to bust out the “God is too powerful for us to really understand” psuedoargument next and not bother pursuing this?
Because He is a God of Love. He wants us to be with Him. Now why did He chose worship instead of giving Him presents, well He actually did both, in the OT we have animal sacrifices and tithes, in the NT we have dedicating our lives to Jesus. It is the expression of giving love that leads to the natural order. God comes first (or should) when it comes to us because ALL things come from God, so yes love your parents for that present, but love God more because not only is that present from Him, but your parents also.
Infinity, as a number, doesn’t exist. I would be happy to analogize that to God - You’re saying that God doesn’t exist.
Ergo, you have already provided your own counterexample to your statement “Allowing for a less then all powerful God would mean that He would be incapable of allowing free will in achieving the greatest glory to God.”
Meaning it’s so natural, that it can’t be seen unless God alters your perceptions to something unnatural.
Not that I expect you’re willing to process things that don’t align with your beliefs, but really, you’re shooting your own position full of holes.
Like multidimensional physics?
It’s fascinating how you jump around. What, pray tell, does multidimentional physics have to do with your claim that it’s “natural” for everybody to grovel at god’s feet?
(Not that it being natural is an excuse for God tolerating such a disgusting state of existence, not if he’s all-powerful and all.)
Yeah, he wants us to be with him so much that he drowns little children to speed the process. I’m sure your answer to natural evil is that God’s will is beyond our understanding.
God, if he existed, would have an impact on our world, if indirectly, just like multi-dimensional physics. We can deduce the rules of this physics by experimentation and evidence. In Bible stories there is ample evidence for God, in the real world, not so much.
Though our minds can wrap around some heavy concepts, there are even heavier concepts out there that we may never understand. I think we are gifted with a mind that can conceive of and comprehend the divine, but only temporarily (with the exception of Moses, maybe). We have moments of divine inspiration. But we can never totally understand God enough to accurately say He is perfect. By our standards, creation is perfect. But we’re a mess. Within that “perfection” there are outcomes and consequences that don’t make sense. I like to think that God is also learning, and in that implies He is not perfect either. But then again, perfection is a state of minds we have created, like things having a beginning and end.
My replies were in response to others posts, I’m not the one jumping. Currently there is a thread in GQ about the possible solution the grand unified theory using multidimentional physics (IIRC 4 spacial dimensions and 2 time dimensions). One of the links was how are 3 + time dimensions are really a shadow of reality fits very nicely into God’s design of the spiritual world that people in this world can’t see, but we as created beings were designed to. It (both science and biblically) expresses that there is so much more then we can perceive currently. What you think of as your natural 3d+t world is really a subset of in this case 4d+2t, the extra 1d+1t you consider unnatural just because you can’t see it.
You are simply re-stating your belief that god wants love. The question was why a perfect being would want or need love.
This is the last time I bother responding to any of your posts that does not even attempt to answer any of the questions addressed to you. I kindly request that you either try to answers the questions, or go witness blindly in another thread.
This is one case where a standard dictionary definition is meaningless. Each religion, in fact each part of a religion, has a different definition of god. The one you’ll find in the dictionary is likely to reflect our current Western god, but that is no more valid a definition than showing a picture of Odin.
So, if your definition of God is supernaturally powerful, then it is perfectly possible to consider him flawed. The perfect god is a rather recent invention, after all. A believer would have to provide me evidence in a flawed god also, just as for a flawless god.
Why did the flawless god win in the West? Could it be because of the “my god can beat up your god factor” which is so popular in the OT?
No the answer is free will, of man and spiritual forces who are not following God’s plan.
Not unless you seek Him.