Does arguing with umpires ever work in the Major League Baseball?

Before Instant replay? I remember the shoeshine ball…any others?

The manager arguing with an umpire is nearly never about trying to get a call reversed (which pretty much never happens); it’s usually about the manager venting his frustrations, and sometimes about showing his players that he has their backs.

It’s also arguing for the next call. If you get it in the ump’s mind that maybe he missed it, he’ll be more likely to give you the next close one. In theory.

It usually only works when the manager picks up a base and throws it.

The bolded part is what is important. A manager getting thrown out is totally worth it if it improves the players’ trust in him and shows he believes in them. It will also endear a manager to the fans, especially if it seems clear that he has good cause for blowing up at the umpire.

Here’s my favorite blow up:

https://www.mlb.com/video/mcclendon-zunino-ejected-in-3rd/c-142346583

Randazzo, the 3rd base ump, had bad blood with McClendon and the umps were blatantly making bad calls. Zunino, the catcher argued on a terrible call and got kicked out. McClendon had enough and gave pretty much every ump a piece of his mind while getting kicked out. It was epic.

McClendon is the same guy who stole first base as manager of the Pirates. I mean, he literally picked up the base and physically took it with him. Now that’s style. :slight_smile:

Some players, Miguel Cabrera for example, argue balls and strikes a lot. I’ve long wondered if it helps at all.

Aaron Judge, on the other hand, doesn’t argue at all and I wish he would because the bad calls are getting ridiculous. Judge has a really good eye and seeing him getting rung up on pitches halfway down his shins is getting really old.

As a (casual) Mariners fan I am okay with Judge getting a bad call now and then… :wink:

I suspect (though I have no direct proof) that being a habitual arguer winds up being counterproductive, as far as treatment from the umpires goes. A player (or manager) who regularly argues with the umpires may be less likely to get the benefit of the doubt from the umpires, as they develop a reputation for being a pain in the ass.

I know that the late umpire Ron Luciano felt that way about Orioles manager Earl Weaver. Luciano and Weaver had one of the most famous feuds in baseball history.

I saw this happen while at a Rockies game at Coors Field. Larry Walker was batting and had two strikes on him. He looked at a pitch that he clearly thought was a ball and the umpire called strike three. Walker argued that it was a ball and must have said something the umpire thought was insulting and he was ejected from the game. Walker was livid. He stomped his way back to the dugout and seconds later a tub of bubble gum came flying out and all over the ground in front of the dugout. He had taken one of the tubs kept in the dugout for players and threw it right out of the dugout.

This

To the point that Luciano once bounced him while he was turning in the Orioles lineup card before a game.

I don’t see any point in arguing balls and strikes. A player (whether the batter, catcher, or pitcher) can question a little in an attempt to nail down the strike zone, but actual arguing will get you tossed from the game. The main point in questioning would be to try to keep the zone consistent.

With modern technology, does the home plate umpire in MLB for each game get a review of ball/strike calls missed for feedback?

I suppose there have been a few times when a manager has gotten a decision changed by getting the umpire who made the call to ask one of his fellow umpires if they had a better view of the play. I think umpires used to be a lot more stubborn about how they were right…and other umpires reluctant to interfere unless asked. Can’t remember anything specific though.

It seems to be rare. That said, on June 10th of this year, the Astros’s manager, A.J. Hinch, managed to get a balk to be called against the Texas Rangers. Houston Astros hold on to win after A.J. Hinch gets balk call - ESPN

(There’s the link to ESPN’s blurb about the game, since I still can’t select text on this board. Which is unique among the message boards I visit, BTW.)

Anyway, a balk scoring a run, even the winning run, isn’t that unusual. It is though, when none of the umpires on the field had signaled that a balk had occurred. The balk scored George Springer from third, breaking a 7-7 tie, and proved to be the winning run.

So, nobody on the field had called a balk, Hinch comes screaming out of the dugout to talk to the ump, pleads his case, the umps confer, and a balk gets called. Not surprisingly, Rangers’s manager Jeff Bannister got tossed afterwards when he then came running out of his dugout wondering WTF?! The radio guys for the Astros mentioned that they’d never seen anything like it before, either while calling games or while playing professional baseball.

It works only if the umpire’s ass is not in the jackpot.

Another possibility is that it’s an intentional sacrifice. If a manager sees a questionable call and thinks his player is going to argue it, he might choose to run out and pre-empt the player by arguing with the umpire himself. That way, if somebody gets thrown out of the game for arguing, it’ll be the manager instead of the player.

It is worthwhile to note that most of the players at the top of your linked list are disproportionately large men even by MLB standards. Judge of course is one of the tallest men to ever be a good MLB position player. Perhaps that has something to do with it? It’s sure not random chance; if you do the same search in 2017 you see mostly the same names.

Anyway, robot umpires tomorrow, please.

Here’s one that sort of worked: George Brett arguing his out in the “pine tar bat” game (7/24/1983). Not only was the call reversed and the game continued from that point, but the rule that resulted in the call was changed the following season.

Also, the resumed game featured what I have been told was the most recent major league game where a left-handed player played second base.

I know they were doing it a few years ago because there were people calling into sports talk radio stations complaining about how umpires were instructed to “hunt for strikes”.

As far as overturning a decision, I remember that disciple of the sof spoken word (Jerome Holtzman phrase) Leo Durocher saying in his autobiography that he once won an argument with an umpire. Leo never questioned an umpire’s integrity, just his eyesight.