Does BBQing Cause Cancer?

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
21

**The subject ** under discussion is ’ Why is the USA, Britain, Canada, and W. Europe plagued with Cancer. How did it enter into our bodies, what did we do, or not do, to allow it to invade our tissues. Why is it mostly concentrated in our stomach, our liver, kidneys, and digestive tracts including our throats. This suggests to me that we are eating it, and consuming it in our diets, some innocent looking unsuspected harmful product. A minute trace product that is easily digested and swallowed. A food chemical that our systems store [probably in our fat cells] and which in time becomes deadly. Once consumed it oozes its rust like cell killing poisons like a dripping tap for years. And over say 10 years [guess-guess] it causes the Body Organ to become cancerous.

On my land we have a stream, a JCB driver spilled a small can of oil, about 1/2 gallon in to it, for weeks afterwards all the way downstream, over a distance of 300 yards we had a multi-coloured rainbow hued oil slick. It lasted a long long time. I’m saying there’s a relationship between an oil slick and something we eat. That the stream is our digestive juices and the tributaries are our blood vessals. They are the carriers. And this ‘thing’ which we have swallowed is rusting away inside us. Its killing us. This is my own theory, you may have yours, yours might be better than mine. i hope so.

Today, i went to a Summerfields Supermarket, yes, they were selling cooked chickens, and everyone of them was scorched black. They were mottled black and dripping grease. Each chicken had about 12 - 18 severe char burns on it. Let me pose these question to you. [Ques] Do you advise i buy these burnt chickens, should i eat same, should this Supermarket be allowed to sell them, would you feed them to your children.

Finally, I trust you read my 60 odd references. i Have another 250 all similar. Over to you. Warning this is not a point scoring debate. Count the gravestones, ask, make a list of deaths in your family. My list increased recently by one person. WHY?

TRUE-BRIT.

22

CHRONOS:

I posted for you about 60 references including some from Lancet and The New England Medical Journal. 60.

Your reply [ABOVE] was flippant, indifferent, and callous. Obviously, your still the class comedian, the popular good guy with the wit and the barbed comment. Please keep sailing through life just the way you are. We need people like you to liven up a wake, to toast the dear departed, and to bring some harmless joy into our lives. To remind us we need to sup up today - for tomorrow we die.

Maybe, you should practice your wit on some Cancer Hospice Patient, or some young widow, or a houseful of children who have just lost the father who took them all camping and sea fishing. They will love your Agent Orange remark. Yes, your a star performer.

TRUE-BRIT.

23

Watch who you’re talking to, bub. Not that Chronos needs my protection, but you won’t find anyone on this board – or any others, for that matter – who brings more to the table when it comes to illuminating people. His reply was neither flippant, indifferent, nor callous.

What’s more, he (assuming Chornos is a he) was on the money. We know nothing about these family members of yours, so we have no way of knowing what other potential carcinogens they may have run across, if any, or even what sorts of cancer they had. I lost my father to liver cancer, which the doctors at first assumed was due to heavy drinking. Problem: he didn’t drink, and hadn’t had a drop of alcohol in better than 60 years. Moral: just because you think something is the cause doesn’t mean it really is.

Moreover, you seem like an intelligent person, and to your credit you produced some useful cites, but you haven’t exactly piled on the logic here. Your cites, from what I can tell, mainly confirm what Cecil’s column said, that grilling food may produce small amounts of carcinogens in some cases. OK, we knew that. Outside of that, you have brought nothing to the discussion except a load of empty sentences that don’t hold together. Let me try things your way:
Why did a good friend of mine have to go through the trauma and fear of breast cancer? I mean, she’s a vegetarian, so obviously she must have eaten a bunch of vegetables prepared in some sort of carcinogen. Water must go!
Why did my father-in-law have to have his stomach removed due to stomach cancer? He doesn’t eat much meat, but, this being the southern US, he does drink a good bit of tea. Tea is mostly water. Water is bad!
Why is my niece’s soccer coach fighting melanoma? He plays soccer, sweats, and drinks . . . water! Bad water!

It doesn’t hold together as firmly as you think. As Mathochist said, correlation != causation.

Furthermore, proclaiming that “the subject under discussion” in a thread is a particular subject doesn’t work either if a casual glance back at the thread shows that it was not the case.

Feel free to continue the discussion, but don’t be surprised if people ignore the “righteous indignation” bit.

RR

24

Good lord, man. You need to chill out. You can’t just hit google, post a bunch of articles without reading them and expect anybody to take you seriously.
I went to check your links. First one didn’t work. Second one said (much to my surprise):
Acrylamide has not been proven to be a carcinogen in humans. The only proven effect is nerve damage caused by extremely high dosage levels. Read the summaries. Most admit that while a carcinogen in animals there is as yet no evidence that acrylamide causes cancer in humans and in fact several studies have failed to show that higher acrylamide levels in humans correspond to an increased cancer risk.

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I can’t get any of those links to work, except the one linking to Doctor Mercola’s website. Mercola, O.D., I know to be somewhat controversial over his claims that polyunsaturated fats like canola oil are dangerous, unhealthy, and carcinogenic, while saturated fats like butter, lard, tallow, palm oil and coconut oil (which he just happens to sell) are healthy.

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Er, that is, Chrosno. I mean Chronos. Chornos, obviously, is the god of TMI.
RR

27

TRUE-BRIT, you lost the point. As Mathochist said, there is nothing mysterious about the increase of cancer incidents in the developed world. We have basicaly eradicated all diseases that are caused by germs, so we live longer. But ultimately, we still have to die of something. All that’s left to die of is cancer, heart failure and car accidents.

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Surely, the underlying question is WHY.

Please read these brief excepts and think W-H-Y. w-h-y.

**Right now, cancer is one of the most feared diseases in the world. In
the early 1990s almost 6 million new cancer cases developed and more than 4
million deaths from cancers occurred. Also more than one-fifth of all deaths
were caused by cancer and it has been predicted, by the American Cancer Society,
that about 33% of Americans will eventually develop this disease. This is a huge
disease that is killing people all over the world.

***Cancer, in its many forms was the second leading cause of death in Leeds. 1996. It accounted for about 30% of all female deaths, and 26% of all male deaths In addition, cancers were the leading cause of potential years of life lost in 1996. Well over half of all new cancers among each sex are accounted for by just three cancer sites: prostate, lung, and colorectal in men, breast, lung, and colorectal in women. In 1996, lung cancer alone accounted for 25% of all cancer deaths in Leeds.

GENEVA – Cancer rates could further increase by 50% to 15 million new cases in the year 2020, according to the World Cancer Report, the most comprehensive global examination of the disease to date. However, the report also provides clear evidence that healthy lifestyles and public health action by governments and health practitioners could stem this trend, and prevent as many as one third of cancers worldwide.

Before you can answer any of my posts accurately go and see the burnt food marketeers stalls for yourself. We are discussing burnt, charred food only, not Cancers deaths from 101 other sources. Burnt Food is the topic. In brief i said 'Hey, guess what i have seen, guess what i have noticed, and guess what 1 in 3 deaths in Leeds are Cancer. Is there a connection? Do you think there’s a connection?

Even Lancet and the New England Medical Journals didn’t impress you.

You know what they’ve said for years ’ Eating kills you’ - well its coming true big time. 1 in 3, write it down, thats a plague in my opinion. The black death’s returned - only we now call it charred, burnt, scorched meat. Meat cooked at high temperatures.

Just roll up your sleeves will you, this MORPHINE will ease the pain.
1 IN 3. 4 days later you fall asleep for ever and everyone accepts it> WHY.

29

Fer cryin’ out loud. Okay, here we go:

Link doesn’t work.

Link doesn’t say anything conclusive. See my post above.

? “represents a very low cancer risk”

From your own friggin cite:

emphasis added

That’s your first four links. Let’s score it shall we?
1 doesn’t work.
1 says probably not, need more research (that’s the best interpretation I could give you)
2 say you’re wrong, wrong, wrong.

I’m not doing any more.

I’m sorry you’ve lost family members to cancer. Might I suggest that you would do better to focus on real preventable cancer causes than to keep making stuff up?

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It’s also worth pointing out that you’re contradicting yourself, TRUE-BRIT. So far you have said

followed by

Then we get

followed by

Which is it?

If that were indeed what you had said, we would be having a productive discussion now instead of this slap-fest. What you said was

I still think your heart is in the right place. You yourself pointed out correctly that it’s not about scoring points, so let’s cut the semi-hysterical ranting and make with the rational discussion, OK?
RR

31

I am unable to answer all your various thread and counter arguments, Solomons tired. But lets take 2 or 3.

Chronos is from Bozeman, Montana, which you would automatically think must be the 'heathiest place in the World. I drove from Billings to Denver and stopped in Bozeman overnight, a magnificent State. Chronos informs us that Cancer is an elderly persons disease. Which appears to be a ‘‘fair enough argument’’, yet, a Google Search Reveals the following items about Childrens Cancer in BOZEMAN, Montana, of all places.

  • Eagle Mount-Bozeman Therapeutic Recreation … offered for people with disabilities and children with cancer. …

  • … Payden Memorial Foundation…for kids with cancer Janette & Max Polsak PO Box … 601 Nikles Drive, Suite 6 Bozeman, MT

  • Mark was diagnosed with Stage IV pancreatic cancer. … Mark was preceded in death by his father Paul … Mountain Bank, PO Box 8130, Bozeman, MT 59773 … the leading cause of death in our … Talk: PREVENTION & CONTROL OF CANCER IN THE … SATURDAY, 15TH SEPTEMBER Bozeman Holiday Inn …

Tournament sponsors children to cancer camps… Eagle Mount Bozeman 6901 Goldenstein Lane Bozeman, MT 59715.

ZALKALWE. Is from Tallahassee, Florida. So, lets read the following letter and bits of info shall we:

** I’m a nurse at Southeastern Urological Center in Tallahassee, FL. I was visiting your site to see if you had any helpful information we could give to our patients, and of course you did. Your site is outstanding. I was wondering if you had any information we could hand out to our patients. The majority of our patients who have been diagnosed with cancer don’t quite understand what is going on or the treatments we are providing. The physician I work for does a clinic in Blountstown, Fl that is a very poor area. Most of the people we see are non-educated so any information you could possibly send to me would be wonderful.

** Buck Lake Elementary School, Tallahassee, With your help, our school raised $9,497.60 for the American Cancer Society … Buck Lake Elementary

The Children’s Oncology … Merchants Row Boulevard Room 245C Tallahassee, FL 32399 … many worthwhile causes; including breast cancer, Children’s Home … for the 3rd Annual Breast Cancer Poker Run to be held on Sunday, October 3, in Tallahassee. … …

Neuroblastoma Children’s Cancer Society. Operation Smile. … St Jude Children’sResearch Hospital. Sunshine Foundation. … Today’s Tallahassee notices. …

In working with Tallahassee Memorial Hospital, we have helped establish the Children’s Cancer Treatment Endowment. Your … www.tallahassee
Can you see the problem. you all assumed Industrial, foggy old Britain was a death trap [it is] plagued with Cancer, yet, its happening on your own doorsteps. For instance in Bozeman they have a cement kiln thats burning [remember burning as in burnt food] 65 000 tyres a day, its spewing out all kinds of toxics.
And this is in Chronos back yard.

The reports strongly suggest that theirs a burnt food link. . My argument is based on American and Brit citizens eating x millions of tons of burnt foods per year, and its not openly recognised as an health hazard. May i add that poster called MSMCWHATSIT said she had checked some food for burns and found lots? meaning i think lots of burns, why not follow her example and check for your self. You have all got tool boxes in your brains, use them. So far we are just throwing stones into water. Clever people like Edison, would do something about it, so would Fiorello La Guardia. We have a 9-11 plague every day and it needs to be tackled.

[BOB WILSON, LEEDS, ENGLAND]

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As a matter of fact, Bozeman is one of the healthiest places in the world. And Eagle Mountain helps kids from all over the western U. S., not just locals. Yes, some children do get cancer. That’s true everywhere in the world. But when you can bring child cancer cases from a quarter of a continent together into one camp, it’s fair to say that not very many children get cancer. On the other hand, cancer is one of the leading causes of death for folks of advanced age. Given those two facts, it’s reasonable to call cancer a disease of the elderly (I didn’t do so before, incidentally, but I do consider that a true statement anyway, so it’s not too big a deal that you misattributed it to me).

Incidentally, I can also tell you that the locals do like their red meat, and the barbeque season around here spans approximately from March to November. But Montana still has the highest life expectancy of the fifty states.

33

This is the crux of the matter, **Red Meat and Barbecues and excessive meat consumption **. Others would argue don’t forget smoke - a by product of burning.

SOME MORE SPANNERS TO TWIST AND BEND.

In Whitby, a fishing village, about 50 miles away, they had a small industry SMOKING haddock, cod and Kippers. The British people probably eat a 250 000 ton or so each year. These fish were hung up, and special sawdust was set fire too, and the smoke from this allowed to waft around these millions of fish sides. They were cured in what appeared to be wood barns. About 10 years ago some MOH bloke popped up and castigated the industry. He killed it by linking the smoke to cancer and by telling the world fish curing was the last thing we should be doing - in short keep away from kippers. A 300 year industry.

In England we have a very high incidence of cervical cancer in women, someone looked at these figures and spotted that a large number of these women were married to car machanics.He / they reasoned that maybe their husbands penises had engine oil and grease on their shafts and it was transmitted [shoved is perhaps the better word] into their vaginas during intercourse. Further research proved it was. Needless to say, an health warning to wash your penis before sex was totally ignored. Am I correct in thinking if a man has AIDS - no sensible woman would have sex with him, but if its a drop of oil on his shaft and it might or might not kill you, well, its okay? Get on with it and damn the long term consequences.

I knew someone, Age 16, who was half serious about shooting all women over the age of 50. He advocated a national shooting day. Of course it was nonsense, but he twisted this to ’ Well, if they shot everyone on their 70 birthdays it would help the environment. One day some nation will adopt this as their national policy. So, maybe a long life is anti-social.

In my last post i should have said the cement kiln **burns 65 000 tyres per year. ** This is a cement kiln in Bozeman. I wouldn’t live anywhere near it, but then maybe i do not have the benefit of your high intelligence/s. We need to wind up this topic. i thank you all for the benefit of your input. You seem a grand lot, i have work to do, a small farm, [smallholding 14 acres] Yes, we still have sharecroppers in England to.

BOB WILSON. LEEDS.

34

Answer the questions, will you? What the hell does where I live have to do with the fact that the only “evidence” you have is one discredited statement by the CSPI?

I made no such assumption. My comments have been limited to pointing out that the links you presented don’t say what you think they say. This “assumption” you think we’ve made is a transparent straw-man.

No, they don’t. No, they don’t. No, they don’t. No, they don’t. (Is it sinking in yet?)
See my post above. This is false and you’ve been shown it’s false. It’s up to you to show reports that say that. You haven’t yet. (BTW, I did try to read your NEJM cite, but it requires a subscription. Didn’t even click on the links before posting them, did you?)

I would like a reference for the quote from the nurse. I suspect you have taken her quote entirely out of context and in any case, there’s no menion whatsoever of burnt food. But if she’s getting her information from the same sources you are I need to know that. I know people who go to that Center for treatment.

Google is a wonderful tool, but it doesn’t make you wise. Google makes no claim that the information they return is accurate. It’s up to you to read the information returned and interpret it logically and consistently.

35

I think it’s become clear that TRUE-BRIT has decided on the answer he wants first and has then proceeded to justify that answer after-the-fact. It’s not all that uncommon a tactic, to be (depressingly) honest. Maybe he’s bucking for the job of American Surgeon General, should the vote go Republican this November…

36

Yeah, I got that and it doesn’t really surprise me either. I am a little surprised at the fact that he can’t even seem to find cites that justify his position.

37

REPLY: Amittedly I, and millions of others would like to find the answer to this plague thats in our midst. But having said that I do not think that an answer, meaning an cure will be found. So for this reason I strongly advocate Cancer Prevention. Cancer Prevention. Its simple, it costs nothing, and measured over the next 50 years might save many lives, including yours, and it might also lessen the Social problems and heartache caused by death/s from Cancer.

We had a man in Leeds just like you Zakalwe about 40 years ago, he was always in the right, he always knew the answers, and no one could tell him what to do. Well normally this is alright, except one of his quirks was he insisted on walking on the road edge, he would never use a pavement [sidewalk] his daughter argued with him about and warned him that one day he would get killed [killed that is if she didn’t take her advice] well you can guess what happened. At the Coroners Court, the inquest, the Coroner recited this poem

**Johnny was right, dead right,
as he sped along–
but he’s just as dead now
as if he’d been wrong.
So drive defensively everyone! **

Studying Zackalwe posts my first impression was that he was a drama queen, but i now think both he and Mathochist are people who have to get it 100% right all the time, or you do not get their go-ahead, their co-operation, or their respect. For what its worth, admirable as this trait is, forget it, come down a bit, you can ruin your life, your marriage, your friendships by being like this, and your job history becomes rather ragged … we are talking here about Cancer advice and Cancer Prevention, and indirectly Brit / USA firendships.

An example of this friendship is that yesterday acting on USA FBI advice [thank you] we arrested 12 Al Quaeda terrorists, who were planning attacks on various centres including London Airport. Now our Police didn’t adopt your attitude, your lets see your cites approach, they kicked 12 doors down and arrested 12 hoodlums. Now that what i consider real Cancer Prevention. Anyway back to the topic; heres some more brainfood for you both, i know you will not act on it, nor will it do you any good, but try these searches. You see i am not the lone voice crying in the wilderness you infer. Read these searches and then ignore the answers. Thats right ignore them and keep walking on the road - its safer that way?

**
SEARCH WORD: SMOKE - CANCER = 1.27M ANSWERS**

Americans to quit smoking and fueled a cultural revolution against tobacco…Today, lung cancer deaths are falling … www.cancer.org

SEARCH WORD: BURNT FOOD - CANCER = 269 000 ANSWERS
… Burn the cookies at your peril (Filed: 26/02 … For example, barbecuing or grilling food can produce small …which can cause cancer in animals. … arts.telegraph.co.uk/connected

.SEARCH WORD: SMOKED FOODS [FISH] 111 000 ANSWERS … Smoked Foods Consuming excessive amounts of foods grilled (broiled) over an open flame or smoked foods (smoke cured) may increase your risk of cancer of the …

About 1, 600 000 answers. Lets say 200 000 are wrong, but 1.4m are correct, then place your bets. Try and find the winner yourselves. For whats its worth i like to back 2 horses in a race. And i do win at the gee -gees. i have also been known to place rather big bets on my hunches. But not as big as yours - your gambling your lives, I’m exhanging bits of paper. Regards.

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Clever. In that same spirit, may I add that your position reminds me of the cat that sat on a hot stove. It will never sit on a hot stove again; nor on a cold one either.

I think you are overreacting.

39

**Fear itself ** - Off topic> I like your non-de-plume. From FDR’s first inaugural address, which contains the full quote in the fifth sentence:

**So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself – nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. Looking at the date of the speech, 1933, and reading a bit further into Roosevelt’s address, he was referring to the economic conditions of the time – in other words, The Great Depression. * *

I have had a week of badgering from these two over trivialities. So much so Dexter jumped in to warn me about some members sarcastic behaviour. Fair enough - so far its been sarcastic banter, i can take it, but being serious why the hell should i do their homework for them. There’s 1.6m references out there, 1.6 million. If they want to die from the 5 Cs, then thats there affair. When the joke loses its mirth is when someone like Zakalwe says he accompanys a friend to an Cancer Treatment Centre? and doesn’t add ’ i wonder what caused his/ her condition’. i had a a valuable racing pigeon die and i had the vet give me an opinion and advice on prevention, future prevention, to be safe i took down and burnt my loft, disinfected the birds, put cider vinegar in the water, and YES, I OVER REACTED. I had too. Didn’t you spot a warning signal in one of my posts The World Health Organisation in Geneva is forecasting an annual 50% increase in Cancers deaths, 50% in the next decade.

For Gods sake man pack up and get out of there. its safer in Iiraq.

BOB W.

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There’s a guaranteed way not to get cancer. You eat an apple a day, every single day for 36,525 days, and you’ll live to be 100 years old. Guaranteed.