Does consciousness exist outside a brain?

[Atomic_Alex]

@Voyager

I buy all the stuff in that article, but I don’t buy that it is consciousness. My dog now loves cheese and anticipates all opportunities for her to get some. But neither she nor my old dog could pass the mirror test. Emotions - yes - or a good simulation of them. Self consciousness - no.

The mirror test is somewhat unfair for a creature that has senses based primarily around scent and hearing though, it would be like a human being asked to recognise themselves from a vial of their own sweat.

I have owned working sheep-dogs and I don’t doubt for a moment that they were concious, though I also agree with the definition I Love Me, Vol. I has used for that word, ie that there are different degrees and kinds of conciousness.

[Morgenstern]

Does consciousness exist outside a brain?

I believe so.

When I was younger, I used to think with my penis at times. In fact, it tried to control me on more than one occasion… Many guys have faced similar situations.

[Trinopus]

That just suggests that some of us have more than one brain.

(These days, my phone does a lot of thinking for me, too. But the penis’s suggestions are much more entertaining.)

[Voyager]

@Learjeff

It’s possible that your unconscious mind has its own consciousness. It’s possible that a human has more than one locus of consciousness. The fact that YOU don’t experience it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

I doubt it, but it’s possible. What I mean is that your example doesn’t prove anything. You might as well say I’m not aware of YOUR consciousness. A different consciousness is a different consciousness and we can’t directly experience it; we can only imply it from its behavior. People with multiple-personality disorder illustrate this clearly. One brain, separate consciousnesses (or at least, separate memories and personalities … it’s a sticky wicket.)

You mean my subconscious can report out quite complex things, but not its self-awareness? That is hard to prove or disprove, but is quite depressing, since it is trapped in the cell of my mind for all time, unable to truly communicate but only to solve problems.

However, your point is valid that intelligence isn’t equal to consciousness. However, I believe my dog is quite conscious. I believe that when he’s hurt, he FEELS pain. Maybe you mean something different by the word, such as a higher level of self-awareness. I’m using a low bar, where self-awareness isn’t even necessary (though I do believe dogs and cats are very self-aware, though not to the same extent that humans are.)

Well of course a dog feels pain. Even more, the dog remembers pain and takes actions to avoid pain. That’s just adaptive, and doesn’t say anything about self awareness at any level. We react to pain automatically after all.

[Trinopus]

@Voyager

You mean my subconscious can report out quite complex things, but not its self-awareness? That is hard to prove or disprove, but is quite depressing, since it is trapped in the cell of my mind for all time, unable to truly communicate but only to solve problems.

That’s certainly one way to envision it, but I prefer to think of the unconscious as a madly whirring Rube Goldberg machine, where the shoe kicks the milk-bottle into the rotating fan to wind up the alarm clock…all in order to allow me to associate the scent of rose-water with my grandmother’s linen closet and feel warm and comforted.

Well of course a dog feels pain. Even more, the dog remembers pain and takes actions to avoid pain. That’s just adaptive, and doesn’t say anything about self awareness at any level. We react to pain automatically after all.

A different question is whether a dog adapts its own internal cognitive behavior on this basis. And…I think that dogs do this. They’re aware of their own mental states, and govern their behavior – actually watch what they’re thinking – to suite social needs. I believe dogs (okay, some dogs) have a sense of humor, and can even laugh at their own follies.

(Or maybe I’m just anthropomorphizing…)

[sisu]

Does it exist outside the brain? mmm not sure but my view is that the brain is not a separate part of the body so my answer would be that consciousness exists within the totality of our body system and as such yes it does. Of course I think it can’t exist without a brain.

Now the question does anything else have consciousness, well how far do we stretch the idea of totality?