Basically, that’s it. Family member needs a couple months to come up with the money he owes me. He is not a dependable person so I’m wondering if there’s some way he could get out of this.
Thanks in advance.
I assume you already have a signed promissory note based upon your OP. If so, it’s a little late for the notary. The purpose of notarization of documents is to have an independent person vouch for the identities of the people signing the documents, so that they can’t later claim that it wasn’t them that signed it.
Bigger issue in your case is loaning money to a family member.
Are you charging them interest?
Is the rate of interest, if any, commensurate with their credit risk?
Is there a maturity date?
Just because you have an enforceable note against them, doesn’t necessarily mean they will pay you.
As Omar says, the only thing a Notary really does is (help to) show that a signature isn’t forged. It has nothing to do with enforcing the document. The Notary Public doesn’t even read the document. IME, they don’t even look to see if it’s filled out first, they just make sure that the person signing it matches who they claim to be so that that later when the document is looked at you/they can’t say ‘I didn’t sign that’.
ETA, and again to echo Omar, the document has to be signed in front of the Notary Public so if it’s already signed it’s too late for the NP anyways. Either a fresh document would have to be made or, sometimes, the NP will let you sign it again and notarize that signature.
It’s legally binding when you both agree to it and you give them the money, even if it’s not written down (Though a real lawyer may say something like you have to charge some kind of interest for it to be a real binding contract, I’m not sure about that bit).
Legally, writing it down doesn’t make it any more binding, but the signed piece of paper is very good evidence that you both really did agree to this, should you ever end up taking the person to court. I don’t think notarizing makes it that much more convincing to a judge (or potentially jury); it keeps them from arguing that you forged their signature, but the odds aren’t very good that a Judge is going to buy that argument anyway (particularly if you gave them the money via check…). Maybe-- and I’ll let a real probate lawyer weigh in, if there’s one around – the notarized one might be slightly more convincing if the borrower is unavailable, but there are funds you can get (i.e. if they die with some assets).
However, there’s the non-legal aspect: signing something impresses upon the borrower that this is serious, and makes it harder for them to deny they owe you money when you’re (not in court, but informally) arguing about it. That’s pretty valuable.
Notarizing the signature only makes things more solemn and serious. Plus the borrower might think it’s more legally binding if it’s notarized (even though it’s not), and that will only help you to get repaid.
We’ll be going tomorrow with the document. The money has already been loaned and he is now willing to repay it, with the encouragement of…a social investigator and the title to a car. He has a lot to lose if he doesn’t fulfill the obligation, but I wanted to see if doing this is a pointless exercise or actually enough to make him come through.
Well if your borrower is willing to sign a promissory note after you gave him the money, you are lucky. Not very smart of you to advance the loan without the note first.
What’s already been said, but worth emphasizing: All a a notary does is validate that a signature authentically represents the individual purported to be the signatory. They have nothing to do with the validity, content or terms of what’s being signed. The document could be as illegal as a bill of sale for a slave, and it has nothing to do with them except as to whether the two slaveholders are properly identified by their signatures.
I’ve heard of cases involving trade secrets and highly confidential information where the body of the document was covered against the notary’s view, exposing only the oath and signature portion.
Are you willing to sue him to get the money back?
Ultimately, if you don’t think someone is honorable enough to pay you back, don’t lend them money. The written stuff is for making sure everyone’s on the same page (memory can be tricky), and for hashing things out in court. And, of course, even if you win in court, actually collecting can be difficult.
It’s a long story but one that I hope will be ended soon. From the replies I gather that it’s enough that I could take him to court at least, if it comes to that.
I am not sure what you mean by a “social investigator”, but I hope the car is worth more than the amount of the loan. Is the car paid for?
Regards,
Shodan
…from the words of a Dear Friend, now gone (and too soon)…
"I have an uncle. He loaned another uncle money and the money couldn’t or didn’t get repayed. The two, whether out of pride or embarassment or hatred never spoke for DECADES.
During that time, the uncle who lent the money lamented bitterly:
‘I can always make more money. i can’t make another brother.’ "
The happy-ish ending is that the children of each found each other through Facebook before either of them died… and as Very old men, they shook hands.
The interest on the loan, of course, was how many years were lost between them… and over that stuff we wipe our bills with… money.
Never lend money to a friend or relative unless you are willing to lose at least one of the two- the money or the friend.
Never lend money. You’re not a bank.
Give money, don’t expect it to be repaid, and if it is repaid, consider that a bonus. Bottom line is don’t lend money unless you can easily afford to never get it back.
Of course there is. He could simply not pay you back. No amount of signatures or paper or laws will change the fact that he has no money, if indeed he has no money.
If you think he’s secretly a Rockefeller, why is he borrowing money from you? He’s borrowing money from you because he doesn’t have it now. What makes you think he ever will?
Yeah, the car is paid for, so there’s that. Thank you, Shodan.
And Omar, do I really need to be told it’s not very smart to lend without a written agreement first? Have you never trusted someone very close to you, then been betrayed? If not, I’m very glad for you and I’m sure that’s why you felt the need to share.
It’s been stressful for me, though. I had a mini-stroke (I think they call them that when you don’t lose motor control, just your mind) when all this came to a head and I also learned a new term: Elder Manipulation. I’m going about this in as caring but firm way I want to take it and knew I could rely on fellow Dopers to answer my question, which you all have to my satisfaction and I thank you.
Really, I know I can ask you all anything and get a definitive answer, even if it’s of so little consequence it oughtta be thrown in the quarry.
Generally private loans to family members are about the riskiest type of loan you will ever make. If the borrower has a sketchy history they will always rely on the fact that you are family to keep you at bay when the time comes to collect. The legal enforceability of the note is almost beside the point they are relying on the fact that you can be pressured by other family members to either let it go and certainly you would never take them to court.
Unfortunately you were in a very vulnerable position if the borrower wants to play you against other relatives for sympathy. If you are going to play hardball it might be prudent to let the borrower and whatever relatives you have in common know this up front.