I’m very glad you responded the way you did; I’ve made a life long effort to avoid exhibiting any of his behaviors personally. Unfortunately, I do or did have a very bad temper and a short fuse. It took me years to get that under control but it still breaks out at times.
I inherited my dad’s temper also … when I was about 9 years old, he taught me the trick of tracing the words fuck you on the roof of my mouth with the tip of my tongue to keep my temper … sort of a combination of private passive agressive behavior on the inside that keeps a neutral expression on the outside =)
Are the people who prefer to be “Mr./Mrs./Ms.” referring to business situations (as in, doing business with the doctor’s office? In a social situation, I absolutely would never use a last name and a title, unless being facetious. In a business situation, (I work in a pharmacy), every single customer, even if they are 16, is “Sir/Ma’am”, and “Mr./Mrs. Smith”. My coworkers are all “Sir/Ma’am”, even if they are younger than I am, which is funny, because some people don’t like it (“I’m not old enough to be a ‘Ma’am’!”)
I’m actually not sure where I picked THAT up, because my parents were never big “Sir/Ma’am” people, and when I worked at McDonald’s, every one I worked with, even the 14-year-old kids, were “Sir” and “Ma’am,” even when I was their manager and talking to them, although I don’t remember a particular formative experience leading to it.
I couldn’t care less what people use for me, whether “Mr. Bear” or “Chaotic” or “Sir” or even “Ma’am” (I wear a lot of skirts and occasionally eye makeup as well).
–chaoticbear, age 22, apparently too damn polite for his own good.*
-
- this is actually debatable.
- this is actually debatable.
I think it’s rude to be called by my first name by a stranger, unless I give them permission (and I usually do, as soon as I’m gasp introduced). I’m not even that old. I just severely dislike the intimacy indicated by a complete stranger calling me by my first name. I’ve never met Nurse01*. I don’t know Nurse01. I will call her Ma’am, Miss, or Nurse. Since she has my name in front of her, I expect to be called Ma’am (since marital status is also in front of her), FirstName LastName, or Mrs. MyLastName. If we subsequently converse, I will likely say “Please, call me Firstname, Nancy.” She is no longer a stranger, she is an acquaintance. This is not an age thing, although children assuming they can call me FirstName is annoying (because of the failure in parenting involved, not because of a failure on the child’s part). On the other hand, someone assuming that because he** is a doctor he can call me by FirstName, since I’m somehow beneath him, will be informed that I am also Dr. Lastname, and if he is going to be condescending, then I will also insist on Dr. Lastname, just like he does. Otherwise, we can get along.
My favorite service provider asks me what I’d prefer to be called, and will usually be gifted with my FirstName as a result.
*I am assuming the Nurse is female, based on the probability in the U.S. of the Nurse being female.
**I use he since it is the gender neutral English term, not in reference to actual gender.
Did you see this thing at the Lancaster, Texas Confederate Air Force museum? If so, you were visiting my home town. If not, never mind.
Well, Troy and Omniscient, if you’ve followed this thread you’ve seen that others are also annoyed by being firstnamed by strangers. It ain’t just me. If people are offended by soemthing, it’s offensive–regardless of how it was meant.
And you’ve seen that some folks in customer service positions agree that the use of “Mr./Mrs./Ms.” and “ma’am” and “sir” are the right way to go. Again, it ain’t just me. You do have some supporters here, though, I notice.
In fact, I DO call medical office personnel by their last names–the info is usually right there on an ID tag. Regardless of their apparent age. Sometimes it takes two or three tries before they ask “Why are you calling me Ms. Jones?”
“Because this is a professional encounter, and that’s how people address each other in professional situations.”
“OH! so do you want to be called Mrs. LastName?”
“Yes, please. Until we get to know one another.”
I mentioned the apparent age of a medical receptionist/aide in my OP as a secondary aspect of the problem and am genuinely surprised at how angry that part of my OP is making some posters. (Possibly I am just a fuddy-duddy. Hey, you kids, get off of my lawn!!) Seriously though, do you routinely address people more than three decades older than you by their first names the very first time you meet them? Did you do this when you were in your teens? In your twenties? In your thirties? I’m just shy of being able to collect on my Social Security myself, and I absolutely address folks from my mother’s generation as Mr. and Mrs. **until asked to use a first name. **
I don’t think I understand what “ageism” means in this context. To the extent that I see age discrimination in ordinary life, it’s when younger people assume that older people are stupid or confused or clueless. Usually over some technology issue. As used above, it seems to be a complaint that it’s not fair for the young to have to be polite.
Finally, you might want to review what Kimmy-Gibbler had to say :
Best insight in the thread, as far as I’m concerned.
Yes to all that except the teens part, if the meeting was in a social situation. As soon as i left high school, i was living away from my parents and paying my own rent. I figured that if i could do that, i was an adult and should be allowed to address other adults in the same way that they addressed me.
I’m probably younger than most people posting in this thread, and definitely younger than the OP, but I’ve worked in a medical office, and I would never dream of calling patients–especially those significantly older than myself–by anything other than “Ms.” or “Mr.” + Lastname. On the other hand, I didn’t work reception–I was on the phone with them all day, so privacy wasn’t an issue, and I can’t attest to the HIPAA issue. I myself prefer medical personnel to address me formally.
Since it’s relevant, I also address older folks as ‘sir’ and ‘ma’am’ in professional or academic situations, if I don’t know them well, or if the generational gap seems to require it (i.e. older neighbors or family members of my grandparents’ generation or older). This was how I was taught to do when I was young, and I’ve never met anyone who took offense, or at least not enough to mention it to me.
While this is probably hard to apply to the doctor’s assistant example, the way I handle the addressing issue in general is to pay attention to how a person introduces themselves to me (this is especially useful for emails) and use that exact phrasing in addressing them. I will then use an identical format to introduce myself. I do care how people address me, but I look to the attitude with which I am addressed and not the specific linguistic form that it takes.
My personal pet peeve is websites that include title as a required field. What if I don’t want a title? Make it optional!
At my old job I was in charge of processing job applications for post-docs in the genetics field, and also the go to person for vendors. I was always amused by the various correspondence sent to me, including one addressed to “The Esteemed Professor Davinci”. (I do not have a PhD nor were there any teaching positions at my employer). PhD positions tend to attract a lot of foreign applicants and I was also amused by what the format of certain applications reveals about job ettiquette in other countries. For example, one applicant went into detail about his marital status and familial structure, and things such as moral standing.
When I was young I used to get a big kick out of being called sir but now it makes me feel old lol. I was also befuddled as a kid by my older relatives who addressed things to me as “Master Davinci”.
I generally find most ettiquette to be arbitrary and antiquated, when it goes beyond basic attitude and intentions into formal traditions. But I’ll be flexible and try to fit into whatever situation I’m in - I don’t have a problem wearing a yarmukle at a Jewish wedding or saying grace with a religious Christian family, etc. I’ll only abstain if the particular custom is mean spirited. The main exception is hats. For some reason, where other arbitrary things don’t really bother me, I’m greatly offput when people ask me to take off my hat. I recognize that it’s a tradition in some parts, but it seems rude to me to ask someone to remove clothing. Whenever someone asks me to take off my hat I have to resist the urge to ask them to remove their pants.
I am also a Firstname, Juliefoolie Lastname, and especially in a doctors office (and especially in ER when Im writhing in pain for some reason)I don’t always catch when they call out “Firstname.” I especially don’t catch when they call out “Firsty” or even more obscure arrangement like Fi-na or something…No matter h ow many times we go through it… Please highlight Juliefoolie on my chart that’s the name I use… (and I have been going to this clinic on and off for oh… 35 years or so) I get the "we have to go by what’s on your health card.
Except that back in the early 90’s I had a health card that only had Juliefoolie Lastname on it. When I moved back to Ontario in 2003 they would only let me get a photo one with the full name.
Grrr. Call me Ms Lastname, if you can’t call me by my preferred name.
Pardon the hijack, but this caught my eye:
“He” is not gender-neutral. “They” is the current gender-neutral pronoun in American English. “He” used to be used in such a way that it was intended to be understood to apply to women as well, but it is not and never has been truly gender-neutral; it simply assumes maleness as the default from which femaleness deviates.
I will do more research on this, but I do not currently agree, based on high school and college English language courses in the United States. It is commonly used, but that doesn’t necessarily make it correct. “Ain’t” isn’t correct, though commonly used. I am not saying you are wrong, just that I must investigate, and additionally find out why I was taught incorrectly if you are not incorrect. Do you have a citation on this? (not being sarcastic, honestly curious)
/hijack
High school and college English courses is exactly where I learned that “they” is, in fact, a correct gender-neutral pronoun. (Much to my chagrin, actually, as I’d previously railed against using “they” as a singular neutral pronoun.) I don’t have the cite handy, but I do know that my AP English teacher in senior year of high school (late 2000 or early 2001) had an official source for it that convinced me. FWIW, my B.A. is also in English Lit.
A quick check on Merriam-Webster’s site even gives us the following note on usage:
Oh, and ain’t is perfectly grammatically correct, as far as the English language is concerned–it’s just devalued in your particular dialect and in formal speech or written language. 