This is a silly and ignorant statement. I marched with Muslims today. If we didn’t pass a mosque, it was purely coincidence.
Well, if you’re into model trains, you might join a model train society or something, you wouldn’t join a “model train support group.” Wouldn’t that imply something different? If you live in a culture where you have to hide out in model train support groups there is something seriously fucked up about your culture.
Great, there are gay mosques. In a few countries where it’s illegal to kill gays.
scr4 linked to this article and it says:
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, that does.
It’s not ignorant. Mosques are not targeted for gay rights protests. If that is about fear and ignorance, it’s on the part of gays, for being scared to march in front of mosques.
And no, just happening to pass a mosque is not what I’m talking about. When Dan Quayle spoke at our local megachurch in Fort Lauderdale about a decade back, it drew a couple hundred gay rights protesters.
Trite and logically incoherent.
I hate both the sin AND the sinner if the sin is homophobic bigotry.
I do not assume that all Muslims are homophobic bigots, any more than I assume that all fundamentalist Christians are homophobic bigots. I take people as I find them.
But it’s ridiculous to claim that homophobic bigotry is not an almost universal attribute of both Islamic ideology and fundamentalist Christian ideology, and to paint me as a racist for pointing that out. Muslims and Christians are mostly civilized people despite the bad ideas of their religions.
In your imagination, gay rights protestors are targeting churches because of their homophobia, but avoiding mosques out of fear of violence. But that imagining has no basis in reality.
I’d say that pretty much ends the debate right there.
In my imagination, artists blaspheme against Christian symbols because they can, and avoid blaspheming against Islamic symbols our of fear. But of course my imaging has no basis in reality.
Look, this isn’t just your usual double standard. The President is so eager to reach out to Muslims that he doesn’t really care how virulently homophobic or sexist they are:
Note that this visit was the first time a US President had visited a mosque. Apparently he couldn’t find one that didn’t preach virulent homophobia and sexism.
That is not the point. Can you understand that as a gay person, I have long experience with homophobic bigotry? That the sight of increasing immigration from countries where execution, whipping and stoning of gays is sanctioned by law and supported by the majority of people, I get fucking scared???
Try this on: I just found out that a certain proportion of the people in your neighbourhood want you dead. But hey, it is just 50 out of 500, so stop worrying!
Yes, exactly my point.
I’m guessing most of the bigotry you have experienced is from Christians. So I don’t understand why you are singling out Muslims as a target of your rant here.
So you’re saying our Syrian refugee outreach program might not have been such a great idea after all? I’m shocked!
Yes - we agree completely. Both Christian, Islamic and most other religious ideologies are dangerous without social progress.
So, in the modern world, where most Muslim-majority countries are socially relatively backward, I take it you agree that Islamic ideology is currently more dangerous.
Isn’t that pretty much what the OP said - albeit layered under a lot of snark?
Some people’s hierarchy of oppression leads them to be willfully blind to any nuance. What you are writing is not complex. At all. Yet it will be deliberately misunderstood.
I’m pretty sure you just quoted me there saying that support groups likely exist because there are enough people requiring support to sustain one. I’m not quite sure what point you’re attempting to convince me of, here.
Why would you make the point that you had never heard of a gay mosque earlier if you’re now saying that it makes no particular impression on you that they do in fact exist? That seems very strange. You know something now that you cast scorn on even the existence of earlier, and now you’re accepting and discounting it immediately? What was the point of bringing it up if it means nothing to you?
I said it frightens me to see Muslims immigrating to my country, Canada, knowing that perhaps a majority, perhaps a large minority, believe I should be killed because Allah told them so.
But I still supported and gave money to the refugee program, because their homophobia does not extinguish my humanitarian compassion.
BTW, I said in my OP that I would like to hear from Muslims in this thread, but none seem to have shown up. I remember an Imam here in Canada who came to our humanist meeting as a guest, but when I told him I was gay he simply refused to speak to me. I suppose a lot of them figure that when it comes to gays, you do your talking with stones, guns or a rope.
I see this one goes up to 11! Well done.
If a belief system is one where it’s extraordinary headline news that in a few rare cases LGBT people can actually participate, that’s hardly a ringing endorsement of that belief system.
I agree. But he(?) was under the impression that there were zero gay mosques at all, and mockingly asked (if any hypothetically existed) how long they’d last due to security issues. To borrow your language, he’d be starting from a position where there’s zero participation for LGBT people at all, and discovering that actually that’s not so. It’s not a “ringing endorsement”, but going from “Hahaha a gay mosque? Not likely” to “Oh, sure, there’s gay mosques, who cares?” seems to be an odd dance from a position where it’s important to a position where it doesn’t matter at all.
Put another way; if the existence of gay mosques doesn’t matter when it’s shown they exist, why is it that it was an important point to make that they didn’t exist?
The fabulously gay Milo Yiannopoulos tweeted this today:
“Milo Yiannopoulos ? ?@Nero 6m6 minutes ago
Liberals: the problem with putting Muslims at the top of your victimhood hierarchy is that THEY WANT TO KILL EVERYONE ELSE ON THE LIST”
Well, no. It’s fundamental for me to make this distinction clear: If social progress stops the bigotry, then the Muslim religions will eventually become more moderate as long as the Muslim countries move forward, and eventually moderation will prevail over extremism.
If, however, the Muslim religions are inherently unable to progress, then there’s no hope. This is a point of view that a lot of people have.