1948 is after the borders were drawn by the British and reflects hundreds of thousands of Arabs becoming refugees and significant Jewish immigration.
‘The math is off’?
The guy I know who likes to make this argument most forcefully is a professional statistician. Anyway, you can look up the numbers yourself: Haredic Jews are only 10% or so of the Jewish population of Israel right now, but they make up a much larger proportion of the population under 18. Haredi Jews in Israel, depending on the specific community, have between 6 and 10 children per woman. This is why the Jewish birth rates in Israel and the territories are increasing, while Arab fertility is decreasing.
Here’s a good primer:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/the-wheel-of-history-turns-to-the-gods/
It’s true that there are not a lot of Jews, Haredi or otherwise, in the world, but we’re talking here specifically about the Israel/Palestine region.
Hello HSC,
Thank you for the link, I have not read the book, however, I did take the time to read the article.
,
I would agree that many of the observant in Israel have replaced themselves more than once, I would be foolish not to, my understanding is that birth control is not practiced unless there is a valid reason concerning the woman’s health.
I am not sure, maybe you can tell me, is birth control practiced within the Islamic belief system?
I would also suggest the Right of Return has had some effect on birth rates in Israel.
If that’s the case, then you shouldn’t have asked such an assanine question.
Perhaps because the Palestinians were there, and the Jews were from Europe … there was a reason the country had formerly been named Palestine …
[URL=“http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/”]
I am sorry, maybe you can enlighten me - that “Palestine” country that you’re talking about - what were its borders? Its currency? Its flag? Its national anthem? Its laws? When exactly did it exist?
Maybe not, but one is rather fond of iconoclasm. Unless you’re planning on putting up a “No Sunnis allowed” sign, I’m not sure how long that religious sanctuary is going to stay in one piece.
The country was named “Palestine” by the Romans to spite the Jews.
The number of Jews in 48 is pretty much the same as in 1946. The massive Jewish immigration took place in the 1920’s and 1930’s.
I don’t know what Islamic attitudes about birth control are like. I don’t think there is a prohibition, but I might be wrong.
Incidentally, opposition to birth control is not the same thing as ‘encouraging large families’: for example, the Catholic Church forbids artificial birth control but doesn’t take any particular attitude towards family size, besides the expectation that married couples be open to children. I don’t think the issue here is the attitude towards birth control per se, it’s more that certain ultra-Orthodox groups have explicitly embraced high fertility rates as a way to influence the future course of society.
Well that’s not totally true. Israel does have some people who immigrate and move to other countries. My inlaws parents were Israeli born Jews who moved to the US.
Thing is, when does this “It’s our ancestral home” stuff expire? Abraham, Isaac, David, Solomon - they are all long gone. And truth is Jews have done well in most countries where they live. I have Jewish neighbors who are perfectly happy living here in a midwestern suburb. My non-Jewish son plays baseball at the Jewish community center down the street. Why does the center of Jewish life have to be Israel?
Nitpick - Israel never annexed Gaza or the West Bank.
hello HSC,
okay let me expand on the idea a little. In Judaism there are Halachos re Niddah, so when one goes through a menstrual cycle, counted as 7 days, then an additional 5 clean days, then one partakes in the mikvah and generally engages in relations that night, turns out that 12 days is going to be around the time the female ovulates, and well you know the rest.
That the female ovulates at approx. 12 days from the beginning of her last cycle, is applicable to most woman with an “normal” cycle, just so happens the halachos(t) re family purity after the 5 clean days are counted, plus the original 7 days, is 12, (or when the woman is likely to be ovulating again).
I think that as observant Jews they would likely follow these halchos, and that has more to do with it than some plan to influence society through high fertility rates.
anyway as the newbie I don’t want to get slapped for highjacking, but nice to meet you.
as to the question by the OP, simply No.
The center of Jewish life doesn’t need to be in Israel, but the center of *Israeli *life does. Israelis aren’t just a branch of World Jewry, whatever that means, and our purpose is not to serve you. We’re an entity unto ourselves.
Israel is my ancestral home starting now. It’s not an abstract concept or a refuge or something designed to make things better for Jews around the world. It’s here for us, the Israelis. So you *Galut *Jews keep on doing well wherever it is you are, and we Israelis will just do our thing.
OP, I think what most people mean to say is: “I don’t think Israeli’s should be moved because they’re in the right”
Not fighting the premise though, I think moving people forcibly is definitely less evil than letting this endless war continue if those were the only two choices. The people moved will get over it eventually, especially if they see the other side didn’t “win”
opps missread on the OP’s question
Yes, Israel is not moving to Canada or anywhere.
Haven’t the Jews suffered enough? 
I think it’s more, like, “who the hell moves countries? Since when is that even an option?”
Would you compromise then and favor the choices given to Jews in the medieval Islamic World.
Iraqi Christians have already been told they have three choices. A)Convert to Islam, B) Submit to Islamic Law and live as second class citizens governed by the old Dhimmi laws, C)Die.
Personally I wouldn’t.
Similarly, I would also be just as offended by anyone who suggested forcibly ethnically cleansing the Palestinians from Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.
I’ll freely admit being nauseated at hearing people openly admit to supporting policies for which members of the Wehrmacht were executed.
I hope none were outraged by the Bush administration’s use of torture which doesn’t harm nearly as many people.
That is complete bullshit.
The world is not America and it’s really obnoxious the way so many Americans ignorantly project their own experiences onto the rest of the World.
The Jews have mostly been persecuted, discriminated against, sometimes slaughtered, and ethnically cleansed in most of the countries they’ve been to outside of Israel.
You do realize how about half of all Israelis are the descendants of European Jews who fled pogroms and the Holocaust and the other half are the descendants of Jews ethnically cleansed from Muslim states don’t you?
Do you really want to tell them that they’re idiots to believe that the Jews need a state of their own to be protected and that they can trust the gentiles who sent the children of the St. Louis back to Nazi Germany.
Many people reading this may need to go to wikipedia or google to find out what I’m referring to. No one in Israel will have to.
Furthermore, as someone who was effectively kicked out of my country when I was two years old, I find the way people are discussing wide scale ethnic cleansing to be beyond offensive.