I do not care about your various religions, philosophical outlooks, or even how you spell the word.
Can you, or anyone, influence the material world through thought and/or chanting and/or hand waving etc.? Can you , or anyone, defy how we think we know the world works?
Where’s the beef?
No.
No.
is a separate question to
I’d say yes to the first, no to the second [in the way it’s meant – it may be true infofar as we can deceive others (for example I believe the Pope could affect the world through an insincere statement)]. Beliefs and attitudes matter. Placebos have an effect. Optimism and self-confidence make a difference.
My spell didn’t work: that’s “insofar”, not “infofar”.
I would guess that professional magicians would be among the most naturally skeptical people in the world. The only difference is that some performers like Penn and Teller are pretty upfront that their just playing around, and some tricky dudes pretend like they’ve really got some sort of supernatural powers. For instance, consider faith healer Peter Popoff, who seemed to have the miraculous ability to call out the names of people in the crowd at his revival meetings and recite their illnesses before he would “heal” them. The trick was that they had members of the audience fill out information cards as they came in. Popoff’s wife took these cards, went off to some isolated room, picked out the good ones, and read them off to her husband, who had a small listening device in one of his ears.
This trick was exposed by the Amazing Randi on the Tonight Show many years ago, but since a lot of time has passed, Popoff has now crawled back from under his rock to do his old P.T. Barnum routine on late night TV and rake in more cash. A sucker is born every minute.
CzaryCzar, I direct you to this thread. Stupid fucks who believe in magic. 
picmr, as you can probably guess, I do not care to go down that vague road. I am talking about Magic, only.
Mercutio, that thread was the reason I started this one.
Again I ask that we avoid shooting down the sideroads about placebos, political influencing and the like and stick to the rather obvious topic at hand, o.k.?
No.
If it did, someone would have learnt how to do it and be performing publicly (for money, fame etc).
It’s like levitation. Some shysters claim they can teach you how to for money, but somehow no-one ever succeeds in public.
Yes, I can do all of that.
When I hand wave my fist upside your head you get hurt.
When I chant I alter the air to produce vibrations(magic!!!)
And of course I can use my mind to throw you across the room.
Maybe you should define magic a little better?
Maybe I, and so many thousands of others through the years, are tired of the semantic games played whenever this question is asked. Maybe a straight answer to a very simple question would be appreciated. Maybe someone who believes in magic will have the cojones to leave the shelter of support, and answer the question without attacking those who are trying to find out what’s what.
And maybe there is a race of invisible people living on the moon. You can’t prove there isn’t!
Czarcasm, you are never going to get a straight answer from the pro-magic crowd. If they say they can perform magic ( or “magick”, like it’s 1601), and you try to pin them down, they either say that magic is about “raising power” and feeling in tune with the universe, whatever that means, or they get nuclear, as Hastur did. Nobody can perform magic. You can’t heal people, you can’t transmute lead into gold, and you can’t commune with spirits because they don’t exist.
I was making a point, I have never seen a definition of magic untill now. And before now I have never believed that I could do magic! If you define magic as “something not done” then it is not done.
MEBMeister, it isn’t going to make a bit of difference. The word games and philosphical dancing around is all they have to show us.
When I use a “charm, spell, or ritual” in order to “control an event in nature”, does this not include using a ritual to effect a change in my own life?
I thought you were just talking with your mouth full
And as for the OP,
No. Magic is something that exists in our heads…but does nothing to affect the actual physical universe outside of our own being.
I may be able to change MYSELF, or how I PERCEIVE the outside universe, but it will still all be the same.
jarbaby
There is no such thing as magic. If some people did have the ability to channel mystical powers to influence the world, then I heartily believe such powers would be amenable to scientific study to determine their origin and causality.
I believe its possible, though highly unlikely such people exist. However, I believe that since it would be able to be organized and codified, it would cease to be magic.
I thin that if the way it changes your own life is that it changes your outlook, well, that is psycology and something intangible. I think the word that has to apply here is “objective”: are there actions a human being can that alter objective reality in a way that other human beings can observe without any observable causitive chain? Can some one, through thought or ritual or charm, change my world without me being aware of their “charm, spell, or ritual”?