Hell, I thought you were talking about Voyager!
When I first saw Babylon 5, I actually though it was trying to be Star Trek.
I personally think the idea for DS9 came from B5, but they branched far enough to be completely different shows by the time they actually aired. Yet, for marketing reasons, it wouldn’t surprise me if either company hyped up the similarities.
Right, cause you know, if there are shows in space in alien, it’s trying to be star trek.
Have you ever seen a star trek script? They seriously insert the words [technobabble] in the script so that other writers can fill it in with random sciency sounding words later. They actually create problems, and resolve problems, in the script, by writing essentially
Character 1: We have a problem. If [technobabble], then our [technobabble] and we’ll be destroyed!
Character 2: Wait, I have a solution. We can [technobabble].
… And that’s the setup and resolution of the story.
Babylon 5 never did anything like that. It’s all about the characters and plot and conflict. There’s no reset button. Characters grow. Actions have consequences. Meaningful stories were told. Babylon 5 is what star trek wished it could be, if it were made for adults.
That isn’t to say that it’s great - it hasn’t aged well, it has its problems, etc. But it was so much more ambitious and interesting than any trek that it’s ridiculous.
The only time trek even comes close was the later part of DS9 that attempted to be gritty and somewhat realistic and have story arcs. Essentially when they tried to copy B5 thematically.
B% never had Ferengi stealing a cloaking device, and lean against the invisible thing in the hallway, pretending to be unconcerned when someone walked past.
True, but DS9 never had Human Style Sex
For that I’ve got Maxim.
It loses some translation from the original Russian, I assure you!
Russian, Russian, Ivanova or whatever her name was? Maybe I missed something giving up on it.
Indeed, you missed many scenes of Ivanova sulking in a silk nightie (this is how she spends the first part of Season 4, more or less), and the hillarious “Human Style Sex” scene from Season 2. Basically Ivonova is trying to secure trade relations between Earth and some advanced, arrogant alien race, and finds out that the alien ambassador wants to have sex with her (understandable). Ivanova, however, wants nothing of the sort with the ambassador (also understandable), and banks on the alien being too arrogant to actually bother to know how humans have sex and too proud to admit it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfMOQxYgGas (it starts at 1:20 or so)
ETA: Sadly, this video has lots of pointless edits thrown in that kinda break the scene up a bit…
Besides the actual “sex” scene Raguleader linked to, this also sets up a hilarious payoff at the end of the episode.
Another thing that DS9 lacks, I think, is Vir Cotto’s wave.
Like this:
waves and smiles
B5 lacks Gul Dukat, and thus it will always be second to DS9.
DS9 lacks Commander Tomalak, which is a major coup for B5
See I was gonna say the same thing, only about Garak. And Weyoun.
But B5 has G’Kar, Londo, and Marcus. Call it a wash?
Oh, and also, DS9 lacks Mr. Bester.
Ezri is cute. DS9 wins.
I agree with you but the whole “Who is better, Jadzia or Ezri?” can be the source of endless fiery debates within the DS9 fandom.
Now as for the idea of whether or not Paramount stole JMS’ ideas… If somebody comes to your studio with pitch and it happens to be very similar to something you are already working on, do you tell them “Sorry, we’re already working on a similar concept”? Or do you quietly tell them no thanks and then call up your production team and tell them to get their asses in gear? In other words, is there a potential downsite (exposure to lawsuit perhaps) that stems from admitting that you have a similar idea already? What are the legal precedents for this sort of situation?
In any case, no lawsuits came of this whole thing so all the speculation about who knew what and when is kind of moot. If JMS really thought he had been ripped off what possible motivation would he have had not to sue?
In infringement cases between large media companies these chains of evidence rarely exist before you sue. They acquire this information after they sue. Not having these things before you sue doesn’t stop you from bringing a lawsuit. If Warner Bros. had had any belief at all that the DS9 producers had gotten hold of the B5 info before going into production, they would have sued.
The question here is not whether every element of DS9 is completely new. The question is whether it is a “rip off.” So far as I am concerned, it’s a rip off only if it is infringing.
No mention of Zathras? Or of Zathras? And man, you didn’t even mention Zathras!
Zathras is having hard life…but will probably have hard death, so at least there is symmetry.