Does Thai culture have a special role for Transgendered people?

Factual Questions
1

Hello, everyone.

My first question to you is a question about Thai culture and transgendered sex workers (aka “Shemales.”) I’ve noticed a lot of “shemale” websites on the internet that seem to be based out of Thailand or Vietnam. Also, people who I’ve talked to who have visited these Asian countries have told me stories about a big business in transgendered prostitution there.

What I want to know is:

  1. Is there some kind of cultural issue in the societies of these countries regarding these transgendered people? I know (very vaguely) that in India there is a very old tradition of some men adopting female dress and behavior. This is sometimes connected to eunuchs, and sometimes not, as far as I know. Is there some similar cultural tradition in Thailand that this whole transgendered sex trade might have some roots in?

  2. Are most of these people Male-to-Female or Female-to-Male?

  3. If there is no cultural significance of this situation, why is there such a large sex trade in “shemales” in Thailand? Is it just some kind of rampant fetish? Am I overestimating the popularity of this thing, or is it actually quite widespread?

Any answers, especially from residents of Thailand, would be very much appreciated.

-MM

2

I’ve not been to Thailand, but I see a lot of Asian film, and I believe the relevant Thai term for “men of alternate sexuality” is “katoey.” I have no idea if this is the “PC” term or if it’s intended as derogatory; I first learned about it after seeing the Thai film Iron Ladies, which tells the true story of a mostly gay championship volleyball team (my review). Based on that and other movies I’ve seen from Thailand, flamboyance in fringe sexualities apparently doesn’t trigger the violent homophobia it does here in the U.S. and elsewhere. These men may not be welcomed in the mainstream, but they’re not thrown into the gutter, either.

I’m at work, so I’m hesitant to Google the term for verification, for obvious reasons. :dubious:

If you’re at a computer where you can safely search and not worry about anything inappropriate popping up, you might start with that word. Or someone else may come along to offer more information.

3

After a trip through SE Asia, I was also interested in the topic of transgendered people. Thailand definitely piques the curiosity :slight_smile: I hope someone who knows more about Thai culture and transgenderism can answer your first two questions. As for your third question, I’ve always heard that there was minimal public harassment of transgendered people in Thailand. Discrimination still occurs (jobs, legal issues, etc) but the lack of public danger (i.e, minimal to no violence against openly trans people) allows transgendered people more freedom to be visible, instead of remaining hidden/private. I seem to recall that Thai’s consider transgendered people to be born that way as a result of previous karma, but I may be misremembering.

Transgender Asia has some interesting papers on related topics, that you may find helpful (scroll down to the bottom of the page)

4

The term shemale is considered offensive and derogatory. It’s used in pornography, prostitution, or if you want to insult somebody. Now that you know, it’s a good idea to stop using the term.

Those would be hijras. As far as I know, the first hijra appears in the epic Mahabharrata. A group of heroes spend a year in disguise living in the palace of their enemy. The great warrior, and world’s greatest archer, Arjuna spends the year living as a woman, performing as a dancer and possibly a prostitute. Most hijras are not eunuchs. When a child is born, the local hijras demand the right to inspect it. If the child has ambiguous genitalia, they demand the child to raise as an hijra.

Uncle Cecil’s Column On Hijras

I can’t remember at the moment, and will have to hunt down an article. If I remember correctly, while tolerated the transgendered are looked down on and viewed as second class citizens.

MTF. I have never heard of Thailand, or any other country, with a significant number of FTM prostitutes.

Again, I’ll have to track down an article to determine whether the amount of transwomen prostitutes has grown as a result of foreign interest in pornography and sex tourism.

5

Wow! Thanks for the responses, everyone. I was hoping I would be able to get some information on this.

6

I have no solid data to offer on the question. However, a good friend of mine, a European biologist who is married to a Thai woman and who lives in Thailand, pointed out to me that southeast Asians show relatively less physical sexual dimorphism than many other human populations, such as those from Europe or Africa. Men are relatively less muscular, have less body and facial hair, etc, while females have relatively narrower hips and smaller breasts. Hence, it is much easier for the average Thai male to pass as a female than in many other areas. He also felt that, in Thai culture, there was much less emphasis on distinctions in sex roles than elsewhere, and related to this was a much greater acceptance of homosexuality.

7

I immediately thought of this movie I read about. I guess it opened Friday. Perhaps it shows it at least has some prominence in the culture.

Beautiful Boxer

8

Hello.

I think the main reason many katoeys go into prostitution and relate fields is that it’s a way to make decent money. They are more accepted in Thailand than the USA, probably, but not to the extent that “the third gender” is totally acceptable. It would probably still be considered scandalous if a member of Thai royalty became katoey. FWIW the term katoey is used for homosexual males and transgendered individuals. It’s not considered especially derogatory or especially nice. It still points out a difference.

In Thailand prostitution for Westerners is mainly done via “gogo bars” and beer bars. Some cater to the customers of katoeys, some are more with ordinary females, but with some katoeys. The “mamasans” in a lot of gogo bars are apparently katoeys. For non-westerners (mainly Thais, Koreans and Japanese, but now more Chinese AFAIK) the main venue for prostitution are the massage parlors and brothels. I don’t have an idea of how common katoeys are there, but if I had to venture a guess I’d go with not likely for the Thai brothels and possibly for the higher end massage parlors that cater to Japanese.

Cabaret shows are also common venues of employment for katoeys and these are AFAIK just like drag shows in the USA and not (at least directly) venues for prostitution. A lot of busloads of Japanese and Korean tourists get over to these.

There are of course transgendered males that work in most jobs, although I’d venture to guess that the glass ceiling is very low for them.

Katoey refers exclusively to MtF transgendered individuals, AFAIK. I never even heard of a case of FtM transgender, although it’s certainly possible. Gay females in Thailand are called “Tom”, which although pronounced slightly different than our “Tom”, is actually just a Thai refernce to “Tomboy”.

One certainly sees, on a day to day basis, a lot more transgendered people in Thailand than in other countries. This could just be that they congregate in areas frequented by Westerners. My wife (who is Thai by birth) once told me that you can tell who is a katoey because they are prettier than normal Thai women. I think that a lot of Thais believe this. I don’t doubt that a lot of men who seek this out now go to Thailand, but I don’t think that there is any particular fetish to this that is endemic to Thai culture. Thais are Buddhists, and generally have much more of a live and let live attitude about most things, so maybe that accounts for some of it.

With some (possible) Thai katoeys it’s really near impossible to tell, did she have a woman’s body by birth, or only by the miracles of modern medicine? Some are not that tough to tell, others more difficult, and I’m sure that there are some I never suspected. But most people have better things to do with their lives than spend hours pondering what someone else’s original equipment was.

9

I’ll say! On a bidness trip to Bangkok we went to a cabaret twice. They had women that you chose as your companion for the evening, but absolutely no hanky panky. They were all trained Thai dancers, and would get up periodically to do their show routine. It apparently was a well paying job, but (I was told) there was no prostitution for fear of being fired, at least not for infrequent visitors like us. They young lady I was speaking with (#42) implored us to come back for the Drag Show. One of the “drag dancers” was the most beautiful woman in the house, and that dancer still had that male appendage in his or her shorts. One or two were comical, but most looked darned good!

10

Which means none of the religious condemnation of homosexuality, or transgender found in Judaism, Christianity or Islam. Which makes me wonder not why transwomen have a special place in Thai culture, but why they don’t have a special place in other Asian cultures. I’m assuming jailing and beating homosexuals was part of Mao’s cultural revolution. Japan’s bushido culture included a very favorable view of homosexuality. Just as with the ancient Greeks, an experienced warrior was expected to train a younger one and become his lover. If I recall correctly, this was discarded shortly before the rest of bushido when Japan decided to modernize.