Yeah, and if one is making that decision on only one data point that doesn’t really back up the conclusion, I’m going to have to dismiss it.
Now that doesn’t make sense to me. The whole point of including another symbol is to say it doesn’t have an unambiguous meaning of “X.” If the American flag inherently meant that I was MAGA, then I couldn’t ever fly it with a rainbow flag. It would be a contradiction. That rainbow flat says “The American flag is not a pro-MAGA flag.”
And, like I said, I’m not entirely sure how to fight back otherwise. Merely flying the American flag on my property would do nothing to communicate that I am not MAGA. And most people who see that flag will not know me as a person. It will just be yet another property with an American flag on it.
It’s not like MAGA doesn’t do this. They also fly their other flags along with the American flag. They use their other symbols. Their message is that being patriotic American means being MAGA. The right wing of the US has long tried to associate patriotism with their ideology.
I can understand the argument that people who refuse to fly the American flag are letting MAGA win. But those who make it clear that the American flag is not a pro-MAGA flag? Those are the people who are fighting back.
Which seems the defense most who engage in dog whistling make. That’s their trick…pious innocence when confronted but a wink and a nod to MAGAts. This hovering in the middle, on the fence, ambiguous stance doesn’t really work anymore. It is the realm of dog whistlers. Which is unfair to those who have no dog in the fight and just want to fly a flag. But, here we are.
No, I vehemently disagree with this. Where I live, seeing an American flag flying from someone’s house has no special meaning. It may be different in your location but that’s not the assumption here. It’s only when I see it alongside one of the other flags mentioned here that I assume they they are a Trumper. Unless it’s being flown from a car. Then 100% they’re a MAGAt.
Around here it is very common for folk to post yard signs - about politics, school/team affiliations, social causes… I generally am not a fan of those signs, but one approach would be to fly the flag and also post a “Hate has no home here” or other liberal sentiment sign.
That sounds like just more wishful-thinking head-sand-sticking, tbh. I doubt that anyone here is basing their assessment of current trends in popular symbolism just on what other Dopers think.
The trends I described as “the present-day realities about what US flag display might reasonably be inferred to symbolize” have been discussed in national media for at least the past few years, not just on the SDMB.
I repeat, once again, that I’m not blaming anybody for wanting to be able to fly the flag of their country without having it misinterpreted as a symbol of bigoted intent. But I do blame people for obstinately refusing to recognize the reality that recent aggressive “co-opting” of the US flag by bigots has made it more reasonable than it used to be to default to interpreting flag display in that way.
Again, I don’t see how this changes that the conclusion is arrived at with one data point that doesn’t actually back it up. I will have to dismiss that conclusion, even though a scary phrase was used to make is scarier.
You could do your own set of flags. The American Flag over a Vote Blue, Save America flag. That should get the point across that you are not a MAGA.
Might get your house burned down too. Make sure your insurance is paid up.
There’s a selection bias here. The ones who aren’t shy aren’t very shy, but that’s a trivial statement.
I think one of the numerically most significant dynamics in American politics today is the way Republican politicians who are peddling hate give less vociferous voters cover for voting their own hate. Mainstreaming hate does a lot to legitimize the hate vote for people on the margin. In a quieter way, so does the right’s claiming patriotism.
I dunno, but it looks to me like that dog is terrified of something.
Maybe of its reflection (or palindrome)?
–G!
It just occurred to me that
- we’ve digressed from the OT but it’s still a lively and relevant conversation
- our discussions have been attacking the symbolic misuse of the US flag in the USA
- we should be attacking the root of the problem – MAGA and the meaning of that acronym.
I propose flying the US flag (if you’re in the USA) with a banner below saying something like…
America IS Great – and getting better!
…or, more blatantly…
True Patriots Embrace Progress
[because the essence of the MAGA sentiment is 'we want to go back (regress) to the USA’s conditions in the 1950’s]
–G!
I’m a Democrat; I’m Progressive; I like progress.
Republicans may call themselves ‘conservative’
But the MAGA sentiment is downright REgressive!
“Waaaa! Why can’t things be like they were in the 1750s?”
Ancedote, not intended to be represented as data:
We have a flag stanchion next to our front door, for use with a short (about 5 feet long) flagpole which extends from the stanchion at a 45 degree angle. We have a large number of banners and flags which we can put on that pole: most of them decorative banners (depicting spring flowers, Halloween decor, Christmas symbols, etc.), but we also have an American flag for that pole.
It’s also worth noting that my wife and I are both bleeding-heart liberals.
For many years, my wife made sure to fly our American flag on that flagpole around Memorial Day, around Independence Day, and around September 11th. For the 4th of July, she’d also stick a bunch of little plastic American flags in the planter on our front porch; she loved showing her patriotism.
Pretty much since the rise of MAGA, she hasn’t done this anymore. She doesn’t feel comfortable having American flags out on the house – not because she’s any less patriotic now than she was before, but because she’s seen how it’s now often interpreted as being a nationalist or a MAGA/Trump supporter.
We’re pretty similar. We stopped flying the flag when the US invaded Iraq, and again when Trump was elected. Post Trump we’ve resumed our practice of flying it mainly on holidays. But only recently we noticed a sudden increase in the flags we see - which prompted this thread.
I’m not at all sure that trying to claim that true patriotism is a characteristic solely of progressives is any improvment over trying to claim that it’s a characteristic solely of MAGA’s.
True Patriots Embrace Peaceful Transfer of Power?
True Patriots Support ALL Of Our Neighbors?
Moving past flags on to the general idea of appropriating symbols to use against the very people the symbols represent I give you this “happy” bit of news:
Same here.
And there’s no way I’d fly anything else with an American flag to indicate it’s not hate speech. I don’t want poisoned hamburger tossed over our fence to our pets. That happened to a friend of mine who was absolutely devastated.
We already had one bad experience. Ms. Napier put a Hilary bumper sticker on her car, and within a couple of days, a pickup truck with guns ran her off the road. No more campaign signs, either – they always get stolen within a couple days.
It’s bad enough having Trump hats and shirts, which I find vaguely threatening, in the room where we vote. Nominally, they’re not allowed, but actually, they are.
That’s completely illegal. At least in my county.
I don’t even know how to look up the legality of this. I spent a while here:
https://ebenchbook.org/maryland/#title-10-polling-places
but didn’t find it. I live in Maryland.
However, enforcement is another subject. I don’t know how to get these things out of the polling place, especially without exposing my family to risk.
In the county I live in (and work for). You would be required to take off your MAGA hat, or Biden shirt or leave. Within, I think, 100 feet of the doors or the polling place. If you do not, then you will get to meet a Sheriff’s deputy.
Q1. What are the rules about campaigning in or near polling places?
A1. Under Colorado law, Electioneering (aka, campaigning) is prohibited from taking place either inside a polling place or within 100 feet of any building in which a polling location is located. In addition, electioneering is prohibited within 100 feet of a drop-box. Each polling place must post signs marking the limit.
I’m pretty sure that includes wearing any object that supports or derides a candidate.
Oh, get over it. America in this context means the United States of America and has for longer than you’ve been alive. You can’t “pedant” this into existence, no matter how hard you and a few other ignoramuses try.