I designed and printed this bumper sticker, for precisely the reason some here have cited. Flags are for
everyone who wants to use them, and anyone here is welcome to use this one.
I don’t see how you’ve addressed my point at all. The Boogaloo Boys aren’t all that common to run across, unlike the thin blue line flag, the Gadsden flag, the Confederate Battle flag.
I mean, the Confederate Battle flag was just that, until white supremacists started using it. Would you argue that it’s not a symbol of white supremacism?
The American flag is obviously more widely used, and by more kinds of people. But, the people who use it most ostentatiously (like on the beach, on their car) are much more likely to be MAGAts. When I go to the beach and see those giant American flags, I’ll often see it with a FJB (Eff Joe Biden), MAGA, Thin Blue Line, or Gadsden flag. I don’t have to be a Sherlock Holmes to figure out what they’re doing.
One thing that greatly bugs me is the flag lapel pin, especially when worn by traitorous MAGAts and other Republican douchebags, particularly the Orange Chief Traitor himself. When worn by honourable politicians it’s just meaningless, but on these traitorous douchebags it’s sheer galling hypocrisy.
In my area there are little stickers people are putting on traffic signs, light poles, utility boxes, gas pumps, etc. - any place with a decent amount of people passing by - these stickers are derisive of Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, etc. Some of them have expletives.
I have been thinking about creating my own set of stickers to put next to these hateful ones, mocking the other stickers. Stuff like:
- “Stay Dumb!
” and - “Still believes the Big Lie
” and - “2020 𝚂̶𝚘̶𝚛̶𝚎̶ Loser
” and - “Brandon Won!
”
Dark Brandon seems to get under their skins:
I think he’s owning them.
Just like he did at the State of the Union.
Pity he’s got dementia.
Sure, but the thin blue line is supposed to be a symbol of one of three things- solidarity with the police or you have a family member serving, or one of your family members died as a police officer. I am sure some assholes have misused it, just like they have misused hawaiian shirts. And the boogaloo movement and their shirts is big enough to that quite a few articles were written about them- they are not obscure.
The Confederate Battle flag has always been a symbol of white supremacists, since day one. It didnt need to be co-opted.
Yep, there is an example.
If the white-supremacist “boogaloo aloha shirt” iconography becomes as culturally widespread as the MAGAt flag-display trend is, then yes, I would expect non-racists who simply like wearing aloha shirts to take that fact into account when considering how their style choices are coming across in public.
Just slap a rainbow or “Fight Racism” pin on the collar of your Hawaiian shirt, and ISTM that you’ve successfully disambiguated the cultural message you’re sending. There now, that wasn’t hard, was it?
But for a lot of people—especially straight white people, and especially straight white male people—it apparently is too hard. For them, even the possibility that somebody might reasonably misinterpret the cultural message of their personal style choices, unless they put some effort into disambiguating it, seems like an intolerable imposition.
Societal privilege, as the saying goes, is all the stuff that you don’t have to think about. When well-meaning privileged people realize that sometimes they actually do have to think about how they come across if they don’t want to be misidentified as advocating bigotry, they often feel insulted and unfairly put-upon.
It is not hard, it simply isnt necessary. I mean, we do have the “In This house we believe…” sign. But no one needs to apologize for flying the flag of their nations, or wearing an hawaiian shirt or … Because those things dont indicate bigotry.
That’s not true. I’ve been in several anti-Netanyahu protests, and there were literally tens of thousands of Israeli flags being waved there. One of the smartest decisions by the protests’ original planners was to place the national flag front and center, so as to position the protestors as the patriots protecting the country from its right-wing government’s attempt to gut the judiciary.
The flags in the window thing is true, though. Most Israelis live in apartments or condos, lots of people hang flags or even more commonly, flag buntings in their windows around May, and a lot of people just leave them there.
I’d say that all in all, Israelis are somewhere between Europeans and Americans when it comes to flag enthusiasm.
Nobody here is suggesting that any apology for those things is necessary. All I’m saying is that privileged people should not just complacently ignore the issue of whether and to what extent originally benign symbolism, that they personally like to display without any bigoted intent, has been widely adopted by bigots to signal their own bigoted ideology.
Because when complacent privileged people do that, then they are making it harder for potential victims of bigotry to tell whether their symbol display is likewise intended as an endorsement of bigotry.
Yes, I get your point that the complacent privileged people don’t have to care about that because it doesn’t negatively impact them personally. That’s one of the advantages of privilege. I’m just saying that I think they should care anyway.
And one of the nice things about that is that it shows observers that you do care about conveying an anti-bigotry message. Bonus perk, it also serves to clearly disambiguate other forms of symbol use that you might engage in, like flying the US flag. That’s one of the benefits of not being complacent in one’s privilege.
That’s a good point, flag waving crowd is definitely the wrong term
There are a lot of excellent points in this thread. What matters most to me is captured first in these three. I might have an intention in mind if I were to fly a flag, but there’s also all the ways it might be interpreted by all the people seeing it. Its “meaning” is perhaps uniquely different to me and each of them – certainly there’s a range of meanings.
As various hate groups have more or less hijacked the flag and patriotism generally, flags have become toxic markers. It’s a bit indecent and hateful to just scatter them around.
Though, this is hardly new. To quote Frederick Douglass, “This Fourth July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn. To drag a man in fetters into the grand illuminated temple of liberty, and call upon him to join you in joyous anthems, were inhuman mockery and sacrilegious irony.”
I don’t generally fly a flag at home. When I do wave one, it’s been accompanied by a protest sign. If I’m ever at a protest at which the protest itself seems unlikely to sufficiently disambiguate, I’ll have to make sure that the sign does the job.
When you fly a flag, you’re making a statement of sorts. How people react to that statement is going to depend on what kinds of people make similar statements. I agree that the Reich Wing does not own the flag, but they are far more likely to fly it year round or fly it from their truck or have it in their vehicle’s rear window or whatever. So when I see it displayed, other than a holiday, I infer that the person doing so is more likely than not to be a MAGA nut, maybe 60% chance. The Gadsden flag screams “MAGA” at the top of its lungs.The Confederate battle flag says “I’m a racist piece of shit!” The blue line flag screams “Screw BLM, I’m happy when cops murder people of color”
If they don’t to you, that can only be because you are willfully blind to what those things mean to vast swathes of your countrymen. Both those who fly those flags for their (not your) interpretation of the meaning and for those who observe your flag and have to divine your intent among all the others doing the same display for a vastly different intent.
They say that the responsibility for clear communication resides mostly with the speaker, not the audience. Your flag is not communicating the message you intend to your audience because of all the other people communicating different messages using the same signal you are.
You can keep repeating your simple contention. You might convince yourself of its validity. You’re not going to convince 100M other Americans who’ve concluded otherwise. Whether they came to their conclusion reluctantly or gleefully.
@Napier a few posts up really nailed it.
Not sure I get flag-waving at all, and I certainly don’t get bumper-sticker-affixing. To me, that’s like an invitation: “Vandalize my car when I’m not looking.” (Or my house, though that’s probably harder.) Better to devote your time, $$$, and effort to doing things that ACTIVELY combat RW MAGA-nuts.
Well, yes, but no more so than any other symbol of the Confederacy - the Stars and Bars, the Bonny Blue flag, “The Yellow Rose of Texas”. Originally, of course, it was only a flag for the Confederate Army, to help mark them on the battlefield, as the Stars and Bars couldn’t always be distinguished from the Stars and Stripes. It only became the preeminent symbol of white supremacy when it was adopted by the segregationist Dixiecrats in 1948.
It depends where. In my neighborhood, probably 90% of the people are Democrats. Yet some people display the flag. I know some of them personally, they are definitely not MAGAts.
Yeah, some asshole white supremacists. They arent going top tell me what clothes i can wear or flags I can fly, or what masks I can or can not wear etc. Do you really run your life around their preferences? My preference is to see them get long prison sentences for January 6.