From previous GD thread.
To the question in the thread title, my answer is “no”. How did I arrive at this answer? Easy. I took The Hampster King’s philosophical position, i.e. “I live my life as though the external world exists” and from that philosophical position derived my philosophical position, i.e. “I live my life as though you and other minds live their life as though the external world exists”. The hard part: Determining which philosophical position is right - - The Hampster King’s philosophical position - I live my life as though the external world exists or Kozmik’s philosophical position - I live my life as though you and other minds live their life as though the external world exists. Determining which philosophical position is right seems to rest on answering the question in the thread title.
From previous GD thread.
It is possible for both of you to be correct.
Other minds aren’t part of an external world?
Go a month or so while declining to participate in the imaginary external world by not eating, staying home from work, etc., then get back to us.
Your position is incoherent. By positing the existence of “other minds”, you have already accepted the notion that it is useful to behave as though the external world exists. If you were truly a solipsist you would not have beliefs about “other minds” because you would not believe there were such things as “other minds” to have beliefs about.
People who have realized the Self will tell you that the true universe is a sort of solipsistic reality- there is only the Self and everything else is an illusion. In fact, the ego created the universe, and the ego maintains the illusion of separateness in order to sustain its own existence. It isn’t true solipsism because other minds are actually of the Self along with ‘you’, which doesn’t truly exist in the way you’re used to thinking of it.
Short answer: When you look at the outside world, whatever aspect it is, realize, “I am that.” It’s just that simple!
Except that it sounds completely bonkers. Let’s look at some more answers…
I think that solipsism is a great philosophy, and I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t believe in it.
Since I believe in it, it follows that *everyone * believes it.
Shouldn’t you have defined “exist” as “what the external world does”?
Solipsism is ultimately un-falsifiable. Cartesian doubt can never be dismissed. It might all be a dream. You might be the subject of an elaborate holodeck hoax. That’s just the way it is.
Accept is as a pointless possibility, and get on with activities that appear to have operational validity. If we can’t wake up from the dream, we can at least continue to have conversations, eat dinner, get our cars repaired…and even have dreams within our dreams.
Coming from you, that is a complement.
Ah! But I already accepted the notion that it is useful to behave as though other minds exist. When I was in college, I behaved as though other students believed that that table really is there. Now that I am working, I behave as though other workers believe that our work place is really there, that the car that they drove and parked in the parking lot is really there, that they are, in fact, going to work, that they are eating lunch, sitting in the lunch room at a table that is really there, that when they leave at the end of the day that their car will still be there and that they can drive that car home or to wherever it is they want to go. What’s more, because you and other minds work, I work. Because you and other minds drive a car to work, I drive a car to work. Because you and other minds eat lunch, I eat lunch. Because you and other mind leave at the end of the day, I leave at the end of the day.
Really? Anyways, I never said I was a solipsist or not.
Why thank you!
As do I. I fail to see why you think this is some major point. I live my life as though the external world exists. Other minds are part of that external world. Those other minds appear to behave as though they believe in the external world as well. Therefore I live my life as though there are minds other than mine that believe in the existence of an external reality. I cannot *prove *these assertions, but I accept them provisionally as a useful way of understanding the sensations that I experience.
In other words:
A is the proposition “THK lives his life as though the external world exists.”
B is the proposition “K lives his life as though the external world exists.”
A & B is false.
A is true.
Therefore B is false. Therefore K lives his life as though the external world does not exist.
Perhaps that was not your intended meaning, but it is certainly the logical conclusion from what you wrote. This is why I said your position was incoherent. Logically, your statement is an embrace of solipsism. But what you wrote later contradicts that interpretation.
Dogs are cool.
Anything beyond this universal truth is simply conjecture.
Oh, and there’s also this:
So … you claim that the external world doesn’t exist … how is that different from claiming to be a solipsist?
Kozmik is mindless of the implications.
That’s already been done, from here:
But this is jnana. It is not clear that the subject was a Hindu, as he is quoted criticizing Hinduism. This isn’t yoga either, and the subject criticized that too. AFAIK this is the most authentic presentation of a jnani’s ‘POV’ available- I use scare quotes because there isn’t really any possibility of various POVs to a jnani:
Pound your thumb with a hammer.
See? The external world exists.
Nobody dreams pain.
Well… Maybe not… The old “pinch yourself to see if you’re dreaming” test doesn’t always work. There are people who have dreamed pain.
(To be fair, not as intense a pain as a whacked thumb…)
I’ve only ever dreamed pain when I was sleeping on my arm the wrong way or something.