Does the Palestinian Authority want all of Israel?

This photo-essay argues that the Palestinian Authority doesn’t just want a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza; they want all of Israel. The evidence offered is that the PA shows the entire state of Israel on many of their official documents, such as the Ministry of Parliamentary Affairs, the Ministry of Industry, the Palestine Liberation Organization official emblem, official PA testbooks – even Yasser Arafat’s uniform. A poll showed that a majority of Palestinians favor the elimination of Israel. That POV seems unsruprising, if that’s what they’re being taught.

If the PA really does want all of Israel, that would explain why Arafat turned down an offer for a Palestinian State comprising over 95% of the West Bank and Gaza. That wasn’t close to a good offer, from his POV. Presumably he wanted 100% of all of Israel.

If these examples are typical, then any peace process faces two huge obstacles. Palestinians would be unsatisfied with an agreement that gave them a state in just the West Bank and Gaza. Israelis would be insecure with any concession, if they think Palestinians would see it as a step toward Israels’s elimination.

ISTM that this fundamental difference in goals is the biggest reason why the peace process is unlikely ever to be effective.

Fuck it kill’em all. Bunch of fucking rag head terrorists.
Drip, drip, drip*

  • [sub] that’s the sound of sarcasm dripping off this post**

Balls. Too hungover to code properly.

So what do you think should be done then if this is true. If the peace process is " is unlikely ever to be effective" do we just sit back and let them go at it forever?

Jeez, don’t leave us hanging. Since you apparently sincerely believe that their only true goal is the elimination of Israel, please tell us what you think should be done to resolve ‘the Palestinian problem’.

First of all December, the PNC does want all of Israel (unrealistic yes, but the desire it not unreasonable given that only eighty years ago they’re were only a tiny handful of proto-israelis in the region) but wanting and actively seeking are two diffrent things. Arafat publically renounced all claims to pre-1967 Israel as a Palestinian state prior to the Oslo peace process. The idea that Arafat would not settle for anything less than Israel is an idea put across by Israeli right-wing extremists in order to sabotage the peace process.


By the way look up any map of Ireland on a official web site. Guess what they include the 6 counties in NI. Up till a few years ago we claimed the 6 counties in our constitution. We have had terrorists killing politicians, members of the royal family, 2 attemps on the actual seating government of the time, soldiers and civilians for +30years over those 6 counties.

Should Britain and NI have worried about the Irish State or just the terrorist fucks?

Considering that Sharon keeps acting like he wants all of Israel (including the West Bank and Gaza), I think it’s just all tit-for-tat.

Eighty years ago, there was no Israel, nor was there any such government as “the Palestinians.” Frankly, I doubt the importance of whatever situation existed 80 years ago. Most Palestinians are young. Their view is whatever they’ve been taught.

I will take your word that Arafat made such a public renounciation. But, did he really mean it? If so, why does he still show all of Isael on his own uniform’s logo? Why do his government’s textbooks and departments show all of Israel?

This is an unsupported, ad hominem argument.

El_Kabong, yojimbo, I don’t know how to resolve the Israel-Palestinian dispute. Sadly, it may not be resolved in our lifetimes.

However, before a negotiated settlement could ever work, the anti-Israel propaganda would have to end IMHO. The Palestinian government would have to radically change their internal communications, media, education, politics, etc. to show support for the agreement and support for Israel’s existance.

Yes December but to even deny them the desire to return to the lands thta they were expelled from is wrong. If that desire is wrong, where does that leave Zionism?

A Irishman, a Russian, and an Israeli are granted an audience with God.

The Irishman asks: “Will there ever be peace in Eire?” God answers: “Yes. But not in your lifetime.”

The Russian asks: “Will there ever be peace in Chechnea?” God replies: “Yes. But not in your lifetime.”

The Israeli asks: “Will there ever be peace in the Middle East” God answers: “Yes. But not in my lifetime.”

Not so. There are millions of Palestinians. Only a few hundred thousand lived in land that is now Israel. Furthermore, most of those who left were not expelled.

I’m not so much arguing that it’s right or wrong, as simply observing that it exists. If the official logo of the United States included all of North America and if this geography were taught in the schools, used by the President, etc., don’t you think Canada and Mexico would worry?

So, no matter what he says, you’re never going to believe it.


Cf. yojimbo’s post re. Ireland.

I have given you my reasons for questioning it. What are your reasons for believing it?

I try to avoid December threads…

But that’s the $6,000,000 question around here. Every Israeli holds an opinion, but nobody knows for sure.

I can tell you one thing - until the majority of Israelis absolutely believe that the answer is “yes”, there will be no peace in the Middle East.

**december, ** for purposes of this thread it would be helpful if you defined “expelled.” IMO a workable definition might be “departed under force or threat of force, whether real or perceived.” By that definition (or an analogous, clearly outlined one), exactly what proportion of Palestinians who were living at the time of the foundation of the state of Israel were expelled? And what is the source of your information?

(I’m asking sincerely, because I am fuzzy myself on many of the numbers and timelines of the Palestinian refugee issue. I’ve heard Edward Said’s take on it, live, but it was hard to hear what he was saying over the heckling from certain elements of the audience. Anyone else who cares to respond, please feel free.)

If Arafat doesn’t want all of Israel, then why did he reject the offer of nearly all of the West Bank and Gaza?

The rejection of that proposal is the most telling piece of evidence that he wants most, or all of Israel IMO. Someday, he will regret not jumping on that deal. defines expel as
1. To force or drive out: expel an invader.
2. To discharge from or as if from a receptacle: expelled a sigh of relief.
3. To force to leave; deprive of membership: expelled the student from college for cheating. See Synonyms at eject.

I would have to search. I don’t exactly recall at the moment.

Edward Said is a proven liar. If you’re not aware of the fraud in his biography, it’s covered here or here.

900,000 Palestinians were expelled from the land that is now Israel, they have also had alot of offspring, most of them fled in panic or were forceably removed.